Wednesday, April 25, 2007

More on congestion suggestion

This is starting to sound similar to a doctor prescribing Viagra for clogged arteries - It will cost the user big bucks and will do nothing to alleviate the problem:

Bloomberg's Congestion Pricing Plan: A Modest Proposal After All

"At just $8 a car (compared to twice that in London), traffic will diminish by a mere 6.3 percent; speeds will accelerate by 7.2 percent. If the average speed is 15 m.p.h., that means an increase to 16.08 m.p.h."

Here's more from

NYC Congestion Problem

Gridlock Sam weighs in too:

Is Congestion Pricing a Good Idea?

Map from NY Press.


Anonymous said...

But that quote misses the following line about how the 6% drop in traffic is averaged out over 24 hours even though the pricing will only be in effect for 12. Selecting that line at the expense of the one immediately following it smacks of, well, dishonesty at worst and spin at best.

I don't like congestion pricing any more than I like tolls. If I'm not in a bus or on the subway, I don't like having to pay to travel within my own city. However, more people drive into Manhattan from Queens than from New Jersey. That's pretty sad.

Queens Crapper said...

First of all, this is an opinion blog, so I can choose whatever "spin" I want to.

But let's see things your way:

(City Hall says these figures, though, are averages over 24 hours; the impact during the 6 a.m.-6 p.m. charging period will likely be greater.)

Ok, there's the quote that you made such a big deal about. There is nothing in it that says what the numbers will be. The fact that businesses will be charged tens of thousands of dollars per year, forcing them to pass the cost along to their consumers and probably either forcing them out of business or move out of the city is something the pro-congestion pricing cheerleaders don't address. Neither are the points brought up in the NY Press article.

Anonymous said...

What's sad is that NJ has a better public transportation system than Queens.

Anonymous said...

Notice the corollary between the pro-development people and the pro-congestion pricing people.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, you can spin anything you want. You can even splash porn all over it if you wanted. It's all yours. And let's even pretend that this blog is merely an opinion and not your way of giving people information. Shouldn't your opinion be based on as many of the facts as you can find? Not just a select group of picked and chosen info?

Anyway, the math. No the numbers aren't given, but I'm willing to be that given that traffic will decrease after rush-hours and that it will drop to almost nothing between 2-5 AM on weekdays, that 6% figure is probably a little low. Even a decrease of only 10% between 6 and 6 would be tens of thousands of cars not in the traffic stream.

Next item: to Anonymous above me: never did I say I was pro-pricing. I'm against it. But I'll give you this. I'm usually pro-development.

That said, I'm more on the border now than I was. And your point about businesses jogged my memory about why. Whenever I'm in the Manhattan, I always think "why must everyone drive their trucks here in the middle of the day? How about the trucks deliver at night, when most people aren't around?" Now they have a reason to do so. And PS, if anybody says "but people will be alseep and the beeping and loading will wake them up." I thought of that. Here's my answer. You live in Queens. You won't hear anything. They live in Manhattan. Don't worry about them.

Queens Crapper said...

"And let's even pretend that this blog is merely an opinion and not your way of giving people information."

It is my opinion and I give links to the actual articles where the quotes come from so people can read them and make up their own minds. People from Queens do read, you know.

Anonymous said...

Why does JK say he is against pricing but only gives reasons why it should be implemented?

Anonymous said...

Hey hey JK.

This is the most honest forum in Queens. You want to compare this with a politician’s press release, a developer's come on, or your typical Queens reporter's spin?

It has faults, sometimes I am not wild about the personal attacks on even politicians without some justification (and as that is so easy, such attacks are inexcusable)

But that being said, this is by and for the people. Even you JK can comment.

And you get more of an opportunity to express your opinion (and shape the same) than the Manhattan-centric preservation community gives those of us in the outer boroughs.

Anonymous said...

I am more than willing to grant QC numerous kudos for being willing to click on the publish button with, given that I, quite honestly, don't much agree with him. That's for starters. (PS: I do live in Queens)

Second, I give reasons why the congestion pricing should be implemented, despite my personal reservations, because I understand. Those who don't like it should come up with good reasons why they don't like it, and those reasons need to be more substantial than that they don't like paying for stuff. Think of it in reverse. If Queens was the city hub, and everyone was flooding in and out of here, wouldn't we want to find a way of stemming the traffic and reducing exhaust smoke without telling employers to go somewhere else? Playing devil's advocate is a good thing to do.

Anonymous said...

If Manhattan wants to protect itself from's a little too late.

Welcome to your own greedy creation and daytime nightmare!

Just you come to the corner of Roosevelt & Main (Flushing) and see worse!

You built those tall concrete canyons on your bedrock live with it!

Every square inch being exploited to the maximum building height. Now somebody (a little guy) that has no choice but to drive through the Emerald City gets screwed with a surcharge.

I don't own a car but if I had to use a vehicle to occasionally conduct business I don't need another ad on cost.

If we didn't dismantle our efficient rail freight system......the West Side & Sunnyside Yards, Railway Express (REA), the High Line etc. ad infinitum we wouldn't be choked up with traffic!

Maybe it's time for NYC to consider some new public freight transportation works projects not the kind that help out those big developers to make their properties viable.

Anonymous said...

Mayor pinhead wants to put the money earned from congestion pricing towards the TRANS HUDSON TUNNEL???? The money goes to wealthy NJ COMMUTERS and ignorse QUEENS????

I have a suggestion. Let's enact a HUNDRED DOLLAR tax on black cars in the CBD during peak hours. On many streets, there are more of these than any private cars. Many of these are used to get the fat cats back and forth to the gym from work, also in the CBD,

So what do you think? Add a hundred bucks to daddy big bucks' one way fare? I think that's a great idea. Also, outlaw all stretch limos and take away all city official's SUV parades. Give em a free lifetime metrocard.

Put the money toward buying each and every resident of SE Queens a nice brand new hybrid auto to use in and out of the city as they're obviously not going to do a damned thing about the transit out here.