Monday, September 22, 2008

More proof that landmarking is a complete joke

There will be no last-minute federal bailout of Yankee Stadium. The National Register of Historic Places has declined, more than once, to consider the big ballpark in the Bronx for landmark status - an honorific, it turns out, that would not have guaranteed protection from demolition.

And the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission, which could have stopped this year's scheduled tear-down of the 85-year-old walls, repeatedly has rejected landmark designation because of the Stadium's 1974-75 "unsympathetic renovation."

Yankee Stadium not a landmark to U.S. government

All those who are now offering testimonials extolling the Stadium as a cultural marker, a place of mythology and folklore passed from generation to generation and reflecting America's soul, will just have to accept that, of more than 80,000 National Register listings and more than 2,400 National Historic Landmarks, Yankee Stadium did not make the cut.

Strict brick-and-mortar arguments that the 1970s modifications completely replaced the "House That Ruth Built" in 1923, ignore the hallowed-ground considerations, that the playing field remains the place where sports giants have trod for more than three-quarters of a century. (Ruth and Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle, Giants-Colts overtime, Lewis-Schmeling, Knute Rockne, and on and on.)

According to Alexis Abernathy of the National Register of Historic Places, criteria for NHL honors include "significant contribution to the broad patterns of history, associations with significant persons, distinctive architectural engineering or informational potential - mainly archaeological."

To architect Aaron Parker, formerly based in New York and now in Minneapolis, said: "If baseball is our national sport and is a true reflection of our national character, then Yankee Stadium could easily be landmarked under [the first two criteria]. Indeed, if Yankee Stadium does not rise to that standard, no other structure in the nation qualifies."

So bring the bulldozers to The House That Greed Destroyed and let's move over to The House that Taxpayers Built.


Anonymous said...

The scared ground of Yankee Stadium, considered by many to be the most important sports arena in the world, is being destroyed for more skyboxes at a smaller venue.

Money has corrupted sports. This will be a black mark on our generation.

The poster child of why the NYC Landmarks Law should be overturned.

It is a corrupt process.

The law is unjust and unfair and should, on this point, be challenged in the courts.

Anonymous said...

Abolish the Landmarks Law & start anew, or restore it to 1965 with some enhancements. We the people declare the NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission to be anti-democratic. We have the rejection letters and demolition permits as evidence.

Barry Popik said...

Landmarking IS a joke! I've frequently pointed out the Yankee Stadium example. Not that the Yankees shouldn't be able to destroy their old stadium and build a new one--it's just that far, far less important structures have been deemed NYC "landmarks," never to be changed. What landmarking does is to keep yesterday's "landmarks" and to prevent tomorrow's great structures from ever being built. I'm all for preserving the past (I'm a NYC historian), but the landmarking choices are laughable.

Anonymous said...

Let's face it folks
baseball, our "national pass time", the stuff that made legends
of Di Maggio, Ruth, Gehrig and the other great knights of the diamond has vanished in the sense that it has undergone such a severe change in its basic character!

Many of us kids first learned their sense of fair play partially from those chevaliers of baseball and the successors who followed them.

But today the true spirit of America (too bad) is perhaps better reflected by the more appropriate brutality of football.

It is direct, blunt, to the point relying mainly on the brute force of offense followed by countermeasures of defense.

In other words a war game which has its origins in the more primitive pre-medieval sport of kicking around your opponent/victim's head
etc. , etc.

Later on there were the games of Hurley, soccer, etc. which were
likewise homages to the skills of war to be put into practice on some battlefield somewhere, someday
in the future.

As our democratic principles,
sportsmanship (along with our respect for them) begin to slowly
erode and fade from our republic...
just so the flavor of our national pass time has likewise changed
from fair play to the sheer brutality of getting on top and remaining there!

The new baseball stars
(certainly not heroes)
are overpaid (some drugged up) prima donas playing for the new
financial/commercial emperors.

And there they sit luxuriating in their season sky boxes sipping
pricey booze and popping
gourmet finger food into their gaping mouths while commenting on a previous bumbled play in the outfield by some rookie.

These new glass domed overbuilt stadiums are more or less
beginning to resemble those mid
Victorian display cases...
the kind that are used to house extinct stuffed bird and floral specimens.

Maybe it's time to bring back the old Roman circuses with their bloodied gladiators so that we as Americans can best confront our current bloodthirsty national character.

Football pales, by comparison.

It's for pansies these days...
featuring none of the cut and rip that might appeal to our piratical fantasies and aspirations.

Yankee stadium... RIP
(along with "THE GRAND OLD GAME")!

Welcome to the new
Yankee Memorial Park Stadium that we've all helped pay for but most of us probably won't be able to afford to enter on a regular basis.

Anonymous said...

Can I buy an inch of turf
from the infield so I can wear it
in a gold locket around my neck
next to my miraculous medals and photos of my family
Mr. Official Yankee Collectibles Sports Memorabilia Salesman ?


Anonymous said...

I am sure you will be able to buy turf. Remember: this is supposed to be turned into a park, and instead of kids being able to play on the same field that the legends play on, they'll probably have to settle for artificial turf.

Anonymous said...

Miles - The new Yankee Stadium is substantially larger than Old Yankee Stadium. Where do you get your information?

Fact of the matter is very little remains from the original 1923 Yankee Stadium.. The only tie is the land on which they rebuilt the place in the 1970s. The Land will convert to the Parks Department so it will remain unbuilt in some form.

Anyone with a slight handle on the facts can see the points here.

Anonymous said...

I saved a photo from a 1996 Sports Illustrated that showed not the Yankees winning the World Series, but a small child playing in the shadow of the stadium across the street. It was supposed to show that some day he might play on the other side of the wall. Now that the kid is probably about ready to graduate high school, both the park and the stadium are goners.

Anonymous said...

has entered its age of "EMPIRE"
(as did all other civilizations).

It's new emperors do not respect
preserving any vestiges of a former "weakness of character".

Landmarking (ha, ha, ha)
is strictly verbotten here!

"Bulldoze 'n build" has replaced
"E Pluribus Unum"!

A brave new world has been born.

We best all toughen up to meet it!

Or you could continue voting in (and ass kissing) all
those anti preservationist
clubhouse rats using LPC chair Bumbling Bobby Tierney as their finger puppet!

Anonymous said...

Listen up Miles (or is it "Moon")

I'm hearing you
and fully agree with you but...


Are you a trust baby
with mucho $$$$$ to kick in?

If not you'd better have a plan equal to your numerous postings on the subject!

it's all talk and no walk!

Anonymous said...


Forget about it.

I'll settle for snatching up
some of the free demolition dust raised by its destroyers out of the thin air and place it inside
a vacuum sealed bottle.

Who knows,
some of "The Bambino's" spirit
might be in there too.

Anonymous said...

"Miles - The new Yankee Stadium is substantially larger than Old Yankee Stadium. Where do you get your information?

Fact of the matter is very little remains from the original 1923 Yankee Stadium.. The only tie is the land on which they rebuilt the place in the 1970s. The Land will convert to the Parks Department so it will remain unbuilt in some form.

Anyone with a slight handle on the facts can see the points here."

Yes and if you had a handle on them you might understand that the point is that the "new" stadium was a landmark in its own right. It need only be 30 years old as per LPC rules. Many other historic structures have been altered and that didn't stop LPC from designating them.

Anonymous said...

I liked how they had fake famous ballplayers at the stadium last night. Yes, I believe that's Babe Ruth out there in the outfield. LOL.

Anonymous said...

How about the indignity of having to sit through John Miller and Joe Morgan?

Anonymous said...

to call the present 1974 Yankee Stadium the same as the 1923 Yankee Stadium is like calling the current Penn Station the same as the original.

Anonymous said...

Just to set the record straight:

"The new stadium will seat 51,000 fans, with a total capacity of approximately 53,000 (including standing room), compared with 57,545 in Yankee Stadium (although that number does not include seating in luxury boxes). The new stadium's seating will be spaced outward in a bowl, rather than upward in stacked tiers, placing most fans further back but lower to the field compared to tier seating. Lower level seats will be near 30,000 (compared with 20,000 in the current Stadium) with about 20,000 seats in the upper deck. The stadium has a split upper deck design seen in new stadiums such as Citizens Bank Park, with seating sections above and below the upper concourse and a view of the field from the concourse itself. While nothing has been announced, these two sections are expected to be priced differently, much like the current Tier Box closer to the field and the Tier Reserve. There will be half as many bleacher seats as the existing Stadium's 7,500, but 2,000 standing room spots will be added. In addition, there will be 60 luxury boxes between the second level and the upper deck. The current Stadium has 16 luxury boxes, around both sides of the press box, which is directly behind home plate."

Guess Miles was right.

Anonymous said...

you forgot this line

The new $1.3 billion New Yankee Stadium is 63 percent larger than the old venue.

Anonymous said...

Who the hell cares how big it is physically? What capacity can it hold? It's much SMALLER in that regard.

Anonymous said...

the people who actually go to the games care.. much more seat room and many more amenities than the old creaking fire hazard.

Anonymous said...

as you point out. There are only 4500 less seats and 44 MORE luxury boxes so to say capacity is MUCH smaller is a stretch.

Anonymous said...

Huh? Since when is the loss of 4500 seats a small decrease?

Anonymous said...

Let's see...10,000 more in the lower deck where the richies sit. Less in the upper deck where everyone else sits. And less seats overall. Yes, this sounds like something taxpayers should have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into.

Anonymous said...

"the people who actually go to the games care.. much more seat room and many more amenities than the old creaking fire hazard."

Yes, and view all the action from further away. What a great deal!

Anonymous said...

I have gone to many a game and would rather they played at the old Shea for 2 years and rebuilt an historically accurate structure in the same spot. You can't replace history. No minor leaguers coming up now will ever get to dream about playing in the House That Ruth Built, where legends played. Now the closest they will get is "across the street."

Unknown said...

Larger, smaller, it's all about the benjamins. And NYC taxpayers foot the bill.

While our city government pisses and moans about low tax revenues and warns of services cuts to come, they continue to give ginormous tax-breaks to those who need them least, as in this deal to fund the new stadium with property tax abatements and tax-free bonds. Meanwhile, us poor shmoes will no longer be able to afford to see a live game there.

Anonymous said...

how much taxpayer $$ was actually spent on the STADIUM?

I understand the Yankees issued city or state bonds but that's not really taxpayer money. Investors buy the bonds and the Yankees pay them off.

Queens Crapper said...

Start with this: Yankee Lobbyists on Taxpayers' Tab

Queens Crapper said...

Then move onto this: As New Yankee and Met Stadiums Go Up, So Do Costs and Disruption

Anonymous said...

So no real dollars went to the construction.

the city has only paid 14 some million in planning costs, the costs to raze the old stadium and rebuild some park land and the MTA is building a Metro North station.

Anonymous said...

ShitiField will house 12,000 less Met fans than Shea as well. Baseball has become the sport of kings and queens. Screw the masses!!!

Anonymous said...

Tax dollars are going into rebuilding those two parks that were destroyed for this.

Queens Crapper said...

Here's another: NY lawmaker: Yankee subsidies hit taxpayers, fans

Queens Crapper said...

Or this: Yankee Stadium Deal Criticized by Lawmakers

Anonymous said...

Hey Crappy, we know that arguing that taxpayers aren't paying for the new stadium is an exercise in semantics. But who cares when you get to pay through the nose to get drunk in seats further away from the field that have more leg room?


Anonymous said...

To hell with all other
competitive sports.

Let's see
"ol'crap-face" Toby Stavisky
and "Bovine/bitch" Shulman versus
"wide load "Como and
Pinky ("tiny tool") Gallagher
in a tag team mixed martial arts
free for all!

I wouldn't "walk a mile for a Camel" cigarette
but I'd be willing to pay
a thousand dollars just to watch this kind of event!

Build us a stadium for this new
and exciting "sport of pigs"
right next to borough hall!

I'll go for it
even with taxpayer subsidies!

Anonymous said...

The only people getting "yanked" around here are us taxpayers!

Bloombeg's NYC are the "yankers"
and I guess we're the "yankees"
(with a small letter "Y")!

Anonymous said...

tax free bond issues are not using public funds.

45 dollar seats sound affordable. Half are in this range

Anonymous said...

$45 a seat sounds affordable to you? You must have one hell of an income. Or no family to bring with you to the games.

Anonymous said...

"tax free bond issues are not using public funds."

That's tax money the city loses out on, which they will burden the taxpayer with trying to raise. 6 and 1/2 dozen of the other. Double duh on you.

Queens Crapper said...

One more time!

Hidden costs of the NYC stadium deals

Anonymous said...

Hey Crappie...
If we revisit Bumberg's 2004 attitude, we can see something changed just after his re-election. Will there ever be a Federal investigation?
One more time on this as well:

Anonymous said...

there are 25 dollar seats too.

If you can't afford that go to coney island for a cyclones game or staten island for the AAA gaMe

Anonymous said...

Nice try crapper butno sports franchise in any city pays rent

Anonymous said...

Let's see...$25 x 4 = $100 + fees = more like $140. Add in transportation which is at minimum $16 round trip. And if you don't eat before or after the game, there's food. I think the cheapest thing they sell now is cotton candy and that's $4.

Queens Crapper said...

"Nice try crapper butno sports franchise in any city pays rent"

You're wrong.

Yankee Stadium News

"Currently, the Yankees pay rent to the city and are permitted to deduct stadium maintenance costs. Under the new lease agreement, the Yankees would no longer pay rent and the city would no longer be responsible for maintenance costs. GJNY argued that this may amount to a net loss of revenue for this city."

Anything else to add?

Anonymous said...

they deduct maintenance costs from the rent.

. The new deal is better for the city in that they don't have the liability of maintaining a 30 plus tear old stadium ad infinitum.

This deal us the same as any sports franchise receives. There is no story at all there

Anonymous said...

The story is that you made a claim and were immediately shot down. Now you are trying to change the subject.

Queens Crapper said...

The new deal is better for the city in that they don't have the liability of maintaining a 30 plus tear old stadium ad infinitum.

"First off, while the Yankees would pay operations and maintenance at Yankee Park at Adidas Field, they would no longer have to pay rent. While Bloomberg has presented this as a wash, the parks department reports that the Yankees have in recent years averaged $7.5 million in annual rent payments — after deducting maintenance. Over 30 years, then, letting the Yanks play rent free would cost the city the equivalent of $103 million in up-front cash; for good measure, Bloomberg has proposed kicking in $15 million in rent rebates for the team's final three years at Yankee Stadium."

Bloomberg's Gift Horse

This is fun, please continue.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Why not call it "YANK OFF STADIUM"?

I think we're being jerked around all around the town with this boondoggle!

Anonymous said...

I think I'll buy one of those
stadium seats...
plant my butt in it and, with my favorite brewskie in hand, enjoy
the Yankee games on TV.

A lot cheaper in the long run.

That way I'll get a better view
in my own living room sky box
rather than pay an extortion fee
for a seat in the nosebleed section
just to watch those fly specs
playing on the field through my binoculars.

Anonymous said...

Bloomberg lied about the financing of the new Yankee stadium. He said that the Yankees are paying for the stadium. What he didn't say was that our taxes would pay for over $650 million in replacement parks, parking garages etc and that the Yankees would not have to pay taxes on the stadium.

To make matters worse only the rich will be able to afford tickets to this new stadium.

Now Congress will investigate how the city and the Yankees conspired and lied to the IRS.

Anonymous said...

the epitome of america... the new york yankees. let's spend the most money on everything. steal players away from every team for big bucks, build the most expensive stadium. you can really only love or hate this franchise. i could see being a fan if you live or are from new york, but i highly disrespect, actually even hate anyone who just likes the yankees because they win. actually, this team cant even make the playoffs. many times if they miss the playoffs the manager is fired. what's wrong with this picture except just about everything? i hate the yankees. i hate them. HATE. HATE. HATE them. i love to see them lose, but it actually makes me sick to see all that money go to waste. burn in hell yanks. it's because of you I will never be able to enjoy my team having any sort of long term success bc any players we might develop into great players, will ultimately show up in your lineup.

Anonymous said...

Hey man, sorry that the Pirates suck so bad.

Anonymous said...

It's absolutely mindboggling that in 2009 you would build a stadium without a roof. Have fun with another 100 years of rain delays. And for $1.9 billion?? What a waste. In milwaukee we built a beautiful stadium(miller park) with a retractable roof for a fraction of the price($300 mil)....take notes NY

Anonymous said...

"Hey man, sorry that the Pirates suck so bad"

Yeah, they'll be sitting home watching the playoffs with the rich and mighty underachievers called the NY Yankees.

Anonymous said...

Shocking, the Yankees take care of the Yankees, and their fans and dont really care about anyone else...Typical Steinbrenners. There's a reason nobody likes the Yankees, and guess what Yankees fans it sure as heck isn't jealousy.. It's that arrogance and BS that comes from exec's of the team "o ya we'll be good for the community, we'll take care of you with tickets and stuff" GUESS WHAT: you cant live off of upper deck Yankees tickets. Those dont help kids get involved in the community and that doesn't help parents keep their children out of gangs and put food on the table. Good Job Yankees, you've dropped the ball more times then A-rod at 3B

Anonymous said...

Breaking News: The Yankees Is Dead! I'm going out to Smokin Joe's to celebrate. Call me there (412-431-6757) if any of you moron Yankees fans want to cry.

Anonymous said...

How did the Roman Coliseum, which rivals the historic value of Yankee Stadium,stand for all those centuries?