Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Allowing non-Americans to vote

"Our policy process and outcomes would be more representative if non-citizens have access to the ballot," said Hayduk. "Elected officials would be attuned to making sure they are aware of all of their constituents' needs, and be more responsive to those and be more representative of them."

A New Push to Let Non-Citizens Vote

Bloomberg disagrees. He has repeatedly stated his view on this issue, saying that only citizens should be able to vote. In an e-mail message from his spokesman, Stu Loeser, the mayor affirmed his pro-immigration stance but at the same time insisted that the "right to vote is a privilege and responsibility for citizens only."

Meanwhile, a report released this month by Dr. Stanley Renshon for the Center for Immigration Studies, a think tank that supports immigration control, cites statistics that it say show that, even when non-citizens can register and vote, they don't. The report also emphasizes the importance of the process of naturalization because its standard five-year wait allows the immigrants to immerse themselves in the language and culture, and develop attachment to the country.

"Each of the five elements of the naturalization process -- residency, good character, language facility, civics knowledge, and affirmation - are essential elements," wrote Renshon. "Naturalization as a requirement of citizenship and voting is not so much a series of hurdles to surmount, but an essential part of becoming American."

28 comments:

faster340 said...

"No ticket No Wash" - "No Citizenship No Vote"...........

That's the rules. You don't like it? Well there's the border. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.

People who already are citizens and people who have worked HARD to become legal citizens have the RIGHT to vote in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

What's next? A non citizen President?

Anonymous said...

Prior to giving this wacky idea any debate, here's challenge to those supporting it: provide a database of non-citizens in the city showing provable numbers of legal and non-legal by election district for every ED in the city. Then we can talk.

Anonymous said...

Whoa now - give illeagals the right to vote? What new rights will legal citizens receive in return to giving away unearned rights to border jumper criminals? Illegal - what don't you get about it's meaning? Border patrol would have an easier job if they are granted instructions to "shoot to kill". This would drastically reduce new influx.

A Better NYC said...

I love the masks shown in the picture.

As a matter of fact I think all illegal immigrants should be REQUIRED to wear them.

They should also wear masks that say:

"Worthless"
"Financial Burden"
"I don't speak English"
"I have too many kids to care for"
"Government handout only please"
"I'm here illegally"

Take you pick...they all apply!

Wade Nichols said...

Be careful what you wish for, proponents of "voting rights for non-citizens".

If this was ever enacted, there will be a mass exodus, not seen since the time of Moses.

Millions of high IQ, high earning people will leave the city en masse, leaving the rotting, stinking core to the newly empowered "non-Americans with voting rights" to wipe their own rear ends.

Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Hell, they already control our communties by being catered to as a thank you for taking care of the needs of the wealthy and the clubhouse.

All this does is legalize what already exists.

Thank you you rich bastards for not being able to wipe your own arses.

A Better NYC said...

And a big "thank you" right back to all you illegal ass-wipes.

Heck, at least you're good for something.

Oh yeah...and at the end of the day, you're all still illegal.

Wipe away amigos!

Future Citizen said...

There are apparently misuderstanding in some of the previous comments.

There are two kinds of "non-Americans" that can fall into the categories, the legal and illegal ones. A couple of the Anonymous have obviously not read the article, thus making the un-informed judgement of thinking that it is about illegals.

The article is in fact talking about the 1.3 million LEGAL, law-abiding, taxes paying, Immigrant in New York City specifically, that do not have a voice. So, some of you should go back and read, then form your thought afterward.

Faster340,
Do you believe that all citizens have the right to representation (Congressmen & Senators)as they have in voting? Would you be pissed if there is no NY Senator Clinton (for example)to represent you in Washington(assuming you're New Yorker)?

Anonymous said...

The privilege of voting comes with citizenship. Why would anyone want to become a citizen if they have all the same rights without becoming one? Should we just have a country of temps?

Anonymous said...

Dear Future Citizen:

It starts with non-citizens and then eventually will extend to illegals. And the article does seem to lump them together.

"Illegals used to vote in school board elections" Did you miss that part of the article?

who don't like pizza said...

faster340 said...
"What's next? A non-citizen President?"

Obama.

faster340 said...

"Faster340,
Do you believe that all citizens have the right to representation (Congressmen & Senators)as they have in voting? Would you be pissed if there is no NY Senator Clinton (for example)to represent you in Washington(assuming you're New Yorker)?"

Citizen being the key word here, "American" citizen. The ones born here of American citizen parents and not anchor babies and the ones who have worked so hard and waited to get their papers legally should have representation and the absolute RIGHT to vote. They are the people who actually have a stake in this country, did the work to be here and matter. If you are here illegally you do NOT. Even if you do pay taxes you are still here illegally and NOT an AMERICAN citizen.

I am a born and raised New Yorker and my family has been in this country since the 1490's (traceable too) and have helped build this great and incredible country we live in!!!

I will be damned if someone who just shows up on our shores via rubber raft or over our border fences and says gimme gimme gimme gets a damn thing without working for it first. My mother always said "Gimme Gimme never gets"... I don't collect welfare and never have I don't ask for anything I don't earn and I don't expect it to be given to me free because I say GIMME!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Just to clarify, they term
"non-Americans" can obviously be translanted into Hispanics.

This group has become the poster child for the "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme" mentality.

When it comes to these bullshit socialist reforms being proposed by the government, Hispanics are always the biggest advocates.

(case in point look at the picture in the article).

Why is this?

I never see large groups of Polish, Germans, Chinese, Italians, Irish, etc. demanding changes be made to our laws.

Why is it that this race has been pouring into this country for year and years; and generation after generation they just can't seem to break the poverty line?

Future Citizen said...

Dear Anonymous (comment#10) and Faster340,

No, I did not miss the weak argument made by Brooklyn Councilmember (Barron). I have not said whether I support one or the other. I'm simply saying that most of the "anonymous" blatantly associate illegals with non-citizens. Most of the works of Immigration office, in my assumption, are related to legal immigration. In the article, 1.3 Million (that's quite a lot) legal immigrants (read: U.S. PERMANENT RESIDENT) are the subject of proposal.

Permanent Resident are probably the most law-abiding, tax paying, people in the bunch (citizen included) because they cannot afford to break the law and risk deportation. They are most probaly in the process of neutralization or saving money to pay the more increasing form fee. They're also more likely to possess a skillset that is demanded in their current job that no one else in the location has (chef, interperator, etc), thus getting "green card" sponsorship from their employer. If you go to a University and get your PHD, especially in medical, physics, chemicals, etc, then your U.S. citizenship is usually handed to you if you want to work here. Now, do you see my neutral argument before even choosing a side?

Faster340, the sad thing is that the U.S. citizen of Washington DC do not even have representation (Senator & Congressmen).. I guess that's the rule. Also, there is another qualification of being a president, you have to be born in the U.S. (territory) with at least one citizen parent. Ex: Arnold (Californian Governor) cannot be a U.S. President

You know what, if the People want something bad and they're organized to get their voice heard, they'll usually get it, whatever that might be.

I, for one, am for raising the driving age to 21 AND to outlaw underage drinking (making first few three years of college not fun because I too am footing the bill for their education).

CJ said...

Faster340 said:

I am a born and raised New Yorker and my family has been in this country since the 1490's (traceable too) and have helped build this great and incredible country we live in!!!

Gee, I would really be interested in seeing that bloodline of yours, because unless you are Native American, or came over on the boat with John Cabot, I find that hard to believe.

Future Citizen:
"the sad thing is that the U.S. citizen of Washington DC do not even have representation (Senator & Congressmen).. I guess that's the rule."

Yes it is. The nations capital is a federal district which is administered by congress. It was established in order to maintain it's independence from any state interference.

The whole point of requiring citizenship in order to vote in local and national elections is establishing a vested interest in securing the well being of your adopted country. Renouncing allegiance to foreign governments, supporting the Constitution of the United States, obeying it’s laws, as well as learning the history and culture of your new country.
Starting off by breaking the law cancels out all the above. If you truly want to be a citizen of this country, you will follow the prescribed steps to make it happen.

faster340 said...

Hey CJ. I am going to see my mother tomorrow and have been planning to put that project together and scan everything that my great great aunts started so many years ago. My mother has stacks and stacks of records and genealogy documents so yes I will try and put something together.

Thank you.

Hooboo said...

go vote in your own country assholes!

maybe if the illegals took part in their political process back home they wouldn't have to be here in the USA bitching about no access to our ballot box.

Anonymous said...

My cat has issues with unhealthy imports of pet food and she demands the right to be heard and to vote for poiticans that will care about her health. Meow

faster340 said...

CJ said -

The whole point of requiring citizenship in order to vote in local and national elections is establishing a vested interest in securing the well being of your adopted country. Renouncing allegiance to foreign governments, supporting the Constitution of the United States, obeying it’s laws, as well as learning the history and culture of your new country.
--------------

EXACTLY!

Future Citizen said...

CJ,

If D.C. resident does in fact have Senators and Congressmen representing them in the House, like other State resident does, how come everytime I see their license plate it says: "Taxation without Representation" ?

You ask a New Yorker, who's your Senator? They'll say two names.
You ask a D.C. resident the same thing, they don't have a name. Unless you can show me a site telling me otherwise, my assumption will stand.

I don't argue with your thought on the importance of citizenship, I totally agree. However, those protesters are not breaking a law in proposing something to the local law-makers, even if they themselves are illegal (just like the immigration movement in CA), which in this case they're assumingly not.

Wade Nichols said...

However, those protesters are not breaking a law in proposing something to the local law-makers, even if they themselves are illegal (just like the immigration movement in CA), which in this case they're assumingly not.

Yes, just like when the members of the "North American Man Boy Love Association" march down 5th Avenue every June, they're not breaking any laws either.

G said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
G said...

Take your heart medication first people, this idea is another in a long series of placard thoughts used by candidates to gain credit among their constituents. The likelihood of such a bill passing is almost none.

Calm down! It isn't like they are writing it, letting the ink dry and enforcing it by this November.

Now class, let us assume they passed such a bill...

That would mean and additional 350 votes for local citywide elections (excluding elections for mayor and governor). I estimate around 1000-2000 additional votes for national elections unless they are highly contested campaigns. Why such a low number? Because legal residents, like U.S. Citizens, have jobs to go to and other more "important" things to do on election day than to wake up at 5am to vote at 6am and then run to catch the E, F or N trains to their jobs.

How many of you can say they went out to vote this past September for the local elections? If you did, did you research the candidates prior to voting? If you can answer "yes" to both then pat yourself in the back because you are among the very few who even knew about it.

Now let us ponder if they passed another bill allowing illegal immigrants to vote.

Why would any illegal immigrant even consider registering their name and address with the government at any level outside of residency procedure? All immigrants-be they Latin Americans, Canadian (I think there may be two), Asian or South-Asian-are paranoid about deportation. Even if such a bill were passed, can you honestly tell me people are going to run to their district representative's office or public libraries to register themselves?
As teens say these days, "lol, n00bz" or "silly old kooks."

So calm down everyone. Tone your bigotry before you go deaf screaming online. Take a "chill pill" and realize that this push is nothing more than councilmen masturbating to the thought of gaining respect among the growing US Citizen minority (of all races...let's not start more sectarian comments) voters.

faster340 said...

Yeah you definitely have a point there G...

Anonymous said...

We're going to hell, anyway. We might as well speed it up.

Anonymous said...

I love the masks shown in the picture.

As a matter of fact I think all illegal immigrants should be REQUIRED to wear them.

They should also wear masks that say:

"Worthless"
"Financial Burden"
"I don't speak English"
"I have too many kids to care for"
"Government handout only please"
"I'm here illegally"

Take you pick...they all apply!

---------

How about:

"I rent a basement from a big shot in the preservation movement"

"I take care of the kids of an elected offical"

"I take the job away from a middle class worker"

"I drive up the rent for a young person just getting started"

"I respect those in authority and do not disagree"

"I have 'needs' the politican is quick to take care of"

Anonymous said...

"Voiceless"......

If you are not an American why should you be able to vote in American elections?

If I was a rich American retired and living in Mexico to stretch my dollar do you think the Mexicans would let me vote?

Anonymous said...

Make them pay taxs too!
Illegal not non citizens
Does this mean I can vote in Mexico now?