Saturday, May 2, 2009

Opposition to Bayside church plan

From the Times Ledger:

More than 50 angry residents poured into Bayside’s All Saints Church last weekend to voice their opposition to a Korean church being constructed in a neighborhood consisting primarily of one−family homes.

The East Bayside Homeowners Association held a meeting April 21 about the Jesus Covenant Church, which drew residents living close to the property and a number of community leaders. Civic President Frank Skala said the civic should undertake multiple initiatives to halt the construction of the church, at 26−18 210th St. in Bayside.

The original plan for the site was to alter a home that already existed on the property, but it underwent a change of occupancy and use on March 16, according to the city Department of Buildings. The foundation for the church, an as−of−right project, has already been built.

41 comments:

Lino said...

Aside from the parking problem, the biggest complaint I have heard is the amount of noise from these church's sound systems.

A waitress in one location had to move from her apt in Sunnyside due to the clearly hearing the entire service from one such place.

The Police said that they "talked to them" but did nothing else.

italian girl said...

It's funny. The guy that sold to a builder giving me and my neighbors headaches on my block moved to this block where he will have this Korean church as HIS neighbor.

Anonymous said...

Well there goes the neighborhood. People move to bayside and whitestone to get peace and quiet, not anymore they're starting to hit those areas. Good luck and god bless.

italian girl said...

Here's my question:

Why are these "churches" exempt from any off-street parking requirement?

Missing Foundation said...

This is inexcusible. This has been happening for a number of years.

The is the fault of City Council (and by extension the Mayor and City Planning.) Everyone knows what is going on. Everyone gives excuse after excuse.

They are hollowing out your community. This is intentional.

This is the fault of the preservation community which follows the adage, "if its not in Brooklyn Heights its not a problem." No seminars on this abuse. No real interest in solving this problem. No lobby efforts to cure this blight.

Act up, people!

Write letters to the paper and send a copy to Crappy who will demand publicly why they are not published (as they will not be)

Shout out questions to the politicans in City Council and the Mayor when cameras are rolling. Demand action, not bromides.

Go to conferences on community preservaion. Publicly demand, during the Q&A period, that since they they ask you for donations, that they run programs and cover topics that are of interest to you.

Life is short and we are all tired of seeing the same problems over and over again.

Stop wasting people's time and start to do something.

Anonymous said...

Damn ├ůsians ruin everything. There, I said it. Its the truth. First Flushing, next your neighborhood!

Anonymous said...

asians make your property value go up so i would stfu if i were you.

Missing Foundation said...

Damn ├ůsians ruin everything. There, I said it. Its the truth. First Flushing, next your neighborhood!

----------

Come on, its every one. No one has cornered the market on tastelessness, or taste for that matter.

The real problem is we live in a selfish self-centered age. Stuff like this plopped down in a residential community, over and over again?

It is a problem not of one people, but of a society.

We know there is a problem.

What steps do we need to take to address the problem?

Anonymous said...

freedom to worship freely. You wanted it, you got. Nothing can be done about this. I would not want to live near any type of house of worship.
Regardless of the faith.

italian girl said...

"asians make your property value go up so i would stfu if i were you."

But certainly you have to agree that a church(no matter who's building it) on a residential street with no parking lot CANNOT be a good thing.

The laws regarding community facilities must be changed.

Anonymous said...

I think the clubhouse brings up stuff like freedom of religion and the race card to confuse the issue.

Stay focused.

Barbara said...

I live near one of these churches and the noise is terrible. I don't blame the people in the neighborhood for being angry.

Anonymous said...

Now it's Bayside's turn in the barrel!

They were asked 20 years back to lend their support to fellow civic associations fighting to curb the large scale out of context over development that was taking over Flushing.

They did nothing!

Enjoy the Flushing-ization of Bayside
...er...wasn't...it Mr. Moriarty?

Anonymous said...

I can understand the opposition, but you have to consider that for many in the Korean community, a church is so much more than a place of worship. It is a community center, senior center, after school program and so much more.

I live in Forest Hills and on my residential block, very much like bayside, we have an orthodox synagogue, korean church and a temple, all community spaces for families who really don't have access to any other such spaces.

Anonymous said...

I live in Forest Hills and on my residential block, very much like bayside, we have an orthodox synagogue, korean church and a temple, all community spaces for families who really don't have access to any other such spaces.
---------

And the families that live on that block have a space - its called their homes - and the deserve quiet.

Maybe, instead of tearing down houses of worship and building eyesores like out of scale senior dorms, the churhes should not be greedy and should sell to places like this.

Afterall, they got those spaces as a gift. Pass it on. If real estate made you religous Trump should be Pope.

It is totally inappropiate to mix this activity in a residential area.

Anonymous said...

The Korean Church on 112 St in Forest Hills has its own parking lot.The area is kept neat and clean. The teenagers volunteer all the time in local community events.
The city needs to go after the hundreds of storefront "churches" located all over Queens. They are tax exempt, and many have their families living upstairs--you guessed it-- tax exempt. Wake up Mr Bloomberg!!! You are looking for more money to fill the coffers--come to Queens and fill them up!!!

Anonymous said...

Frank Padavan once again not doing a single thing for his neighborhood. Padavan is a complete piece of shit.

Anonymous said...

Frank Padavan is a state senator. This is a city zoning policy. You'd think Avella would be more to blame than Padavan. Sadly, the rest of the council is so bought by developers (especially Jim Gennaro and Melinda Katz) that there is no way they would ever write a law to curb this kind of abuse, much less pass it.

linda said...

the only way to change things are to vote bloomass out and we need honest and fresh faces in the city council. since terms limits were over turned by a-hole, you need to get up and run against these bastards and make a change. hopefully avella will be our new hope for this city. i can't wait till someone new is in office to see what the hell our mayor and quinn have been doing all these years. domain has been abused to much while he's in office, i believe he has personal "special interest" in the projects. he wants to tax and raise everything on the middle class and make the poor suffer more, while the rich get everything. FXXK this mayor and go after the rich. Why can't anyone investergate him? is everyone that afraid of him? Was at a seminar in nyc yesterday and this speaker said NYS is starting to crack and it's going to start from upstate down to the city.

FOR HEAVENS SAKES PEOPLE said...

that there is no way they would ever write a law to curb this kind of abuse, much less pass it.

NOT IF YOU DON’T ACT UP AND WRITE LETTERS AND SPEAK UP WHEN THE CAMERAS ROLLING

the only way to change things are to vote bloomass out and we need honest and fresh faces in the city council.

EVERY POLITICAL "FOAMER" WANNA-BE APES AFTER THE HACKS: TAKE A LOOK AT EVERY YOUNG PERSON THAT WANTS TO GET INTO POLITICS. THEY CLEAVE THEMSELVES TO THE MACHINE.

YOU WILL GET NO HELP THERE

Why can't anyone investigate him? is everyone that afraid of him?

NO, THEY REALIZE WHATS THE POINT?

THE PUBLIC WILL STAND AROUND AND WHINE, AND THE MOMENT THEY STAND UP TO TRY TO CHANGE SOMETHING, THE MACHINE WILL MAKE MINCE MEAT OUT OF THEM ... WHILE THE REST OF YOU STAND AROUND MOUTH AGAPE ... AND DOING NOTHING.

PEOPLE - YOU - NOT THEY - HAVE THE POWER – THE POWER OF PUBLIC OPINION AND SHAPING THEIR CREDIBILITY.

A POLITICAN, LIKE A DOLLAR BILL, WITHOUT CREDIBILITY IS A MERE SCRAP OF PAPER.

BUT WHINING AND WHINING ABOUT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN SIMPLY MAKES THEM (IN THEIR MINDS) INVINCIBLE AND YOU FRUSTRATED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU WANT TO MOVE.

THE FUNNY THING ABOUT CROWD BEHAVIOR. IT ONLY TAKES ONE PERSON TO BREAK THE ICE AND TOSS THE FIRST STONE.

GO AHEAD. TRY IT.

WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE?

Anonymous said...

Places of worship do belong in the community, but it should be well planned. I know that's asking too much these days.

The people are great but the noise can be unbearable. And it's not like they worship just on Sunday mornings. It's the weekdays, nights, early in the morning as in past midnight. Group singing and crying.. guitar, piano.

I'm a tree hugging hippie atheist so I let them be, but there are time when I say to myself, it's 1 in the morning, enough with the group crying to Jesus.

panzer65 said...

These are most likely the same people that vacated St. Saviours church in Maspeth. Have they no regard for others, let alone the neighborhood?

Queens Crapper said...

Wouldn't shock me if they were. They did talk about their members preferring a Bayside location.

Anonymous said...

Frank Padavan has been in the pockets of developers for years. He tricks all the local bufoons to make believe he is anti developemnt. Padavan sucks.

Anonymous said...

I like the way the Padavan people, now that they are being called out on their bullshit, use the old "its a city policy not a state policy" line of bullshit.

So the state cant override the city ? dont state laws supercede ?

lets be real. Padavan is a complete full of shit who has been bullshitting us for years.

Anonymous said...

Yes and federal law supersedes state law so let's blame Obama next. (sarcasm)

Zoning is a local issue everywhere. We know you hate Frank but this is not something the state should be involved with deciding.

Anonymous said...

yeah except Obama isnt taking money from developers int he district like Frank Padavan is.

Anonymous said...

No, Obama gets contributions from developers in every district. Plus he gets ACORN to whine that more housing is needed.

Anonymous said...

thank god for the first amendment. it protects the building of any church, synagogue or temples... stop using parking, noise, asians and property value as an excuse for your selfness and racism. it's a house of god we need more faith in this country, I'm sure if you substituted the word Koreans with Jews there would be no outcry, cant wait until the korean star suing for their civil right, specially against this opposition.. Also, so good to see change on the block that is full of ugly depressing post war "homes" that look the same, lets be real.

Anonymous said...

Yes, because houses are being turned into churches all over Queens and disrupting the tranquility of peaceful blocks and people don't like it, it must mean those people are racist. And Jews do this as well. There's a Bukharian synagogue on every corner in Forest Hills.

Anonymous said...

thank god for the first amendment. it protects the building of any church, synagogue or temples...Actually, no it doesn't. You still need to abide by the zoning codes to build houses of worship. You can't use God as an excuse to ruin the character of a neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

thank god for the first amendment. it protects the building of any church, synagogue or...
Actually the zoning regulation has to abide by Federal rights of anyone to built a church anywhere... you should read the law before commenting. what character of the neighborhood the church is a block away from a mall and building towers, I live in the neighborhood!

Queens Crapper said...

I suggest you make yourself familiar with the zoning text of the City of New York. You can start with this press release from the Department of City Planning. The first amendment gives you the right to practice your religion, not build a church wherever you feel like it in whatever size you wish and cause the neighborhood grief.

Anonymous said...

first you should read the first Amendment " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." second DCP cannot stop anyone from building a house of worship no matter what area/ zone in the city.. re-read the article... and finally this is the reason church's are going.

Queens Crapper said...

The first amendment has to do with freedom to worship, not what kind of building you build or where you put it. Zoning laws may restrict certain aspects of houses of worship, as the press release indicates. In any event, the pastor of this flock lied to get his mortgage and that may end up being his downfall. The first amendment does not allow you to lie to your bank.

Anonymous said...

now you are full of crap crapper.
you keep bending your statements, could not built now you can built with restrictions... I stand by all my previous comments. Now in regards the flock lie? I don't know but I would accuse anyone with out hearing their side...
the truth is if you were writing this sixty year ago the complain would be about all the ugly spec. houses destroying the beautiful land in Bayside.

Alex

Queens Crapper said...

Not at all. 60 years ago there was a real housing crisis when all the GIs returned from WW2. They lived in quonset huts until houses could be built for them. Houses that they owned to live in - not property they milked ever penny out of by building illegal apartments and renting out to transient people who don't care about the neighborhood, which is what goes on in much of Queens today. Many Baysiders from that time who are still alive still live there or passed the homes down to their kids who live there. That's what keeps a community together.

Many of the new houses of worship are nothing more than tax shelters and they can destroy a neighborhood when they don't provide enough parking or don't fit into the context of the area. That is why the city council changed the zoning code to try to eliminate the problems they cause.

The fact of the matter is that where and how they are built is restricted which contradicts your point that they could not be because of the first amendment. For example, straight from the zoning page of city planning's website: "Community facilities are excluded entirely from M2 and M3 districts and restricted to certain uses in M1 districts." Houses of worship are community facilities. So I guess your first amendment argument doesn't hold water.

Anonymous said...

Still full of crap crapper.
"...Community facilities are excluded entirely from M2 and M3 districts and restricted to certain uses in M1 districts." this is true BUT House of Worship is exempt in NYC zoning resolution 42-32.
The Bill of Rights vs Powers of State ( zoning Law) let me see.. I put my money on the Constitution.

Also, someday i'll give you short history of all the housing money that went into the pockets of builders leaving a meadow of ugly specs housing throughout Queens..

alex

Queens Crapper said...

Just pulled up 42-32 and nowhere in that resolution does it say that houses of worship are allowed in M2 & M3 zones. You really don't know what you are talking about. The Constitution allows an individual to express their religion without fear of persecution. It does not give them the right to build a house of worship without restrictions imposed by the local government.

End of story.

Anonymous said...

go back and read the zoning again and follow the trail chapter 4... M1 to M5 houses of worship are always exempt.
I never said there cannot be restrictions in building a church, set backs, heights and so on... I said that the State (zoning) cannot stop you from building a Church (please don't put words in my mouth) due to the first Amendment... Please read the Bill of Rights there is a lot more.
Finally if you don't believe me you can goggle and you will find many cases from New Jersey, Dallas to California where Churches sue the State and won based on this subject.
now
end story

Queens Crapper said...

Here is the chapter on Chapter 2 - Use Regulations for Manufacturing Zones.

Houses of worship are mentioned twice. The first time is to categorize them as belonging to Use Group 4. The second time is to say that they do not require a special permit from the City Planning Commission in M1 zones. M2-M5 do not allow Use Group 4 at all and nothing in the zoning code says they are exempt from the rules.

And this is the final end to the story because we have strayed off topic and this post is almost 2 weeks old at this point. This is an as-of-right project in a residential zone and they are not providing adequate parking as required by the zoning code as amended by the City Council in 2004.

Amen.