Thursday, June 24, 2010
You really don't want to shoplift here!
FLUSHING, N.Y. (WPIX) - A Flushing supermarket has an unusual way of punishing shoplifters: forcing them to fork over their ID's, snapping photos of them with the loot they were trying to steal and threatening to display their pictures all over the store.
Security guards at A & N Food Market who catch the crooks in action also threaten to call the police -- but ultimately let them off the hook if they agree to hand over money for the items they were attempting to swipe.
The store -- which mainly caters to Chinese clientele -- seems to be practicing a popular method in China, in which suspected shoplifters are forced to pay for the items they were looking to steal. In fact, some storekeepers in the County reportedly post signs reading, "Steal one, fine 10."
It's unclear if the practice is legal in the United States. However, the New York City police department and the Queens district attorney's office said it had not received any complaints about the practice.
Critics say the accused shoplifters are deprived of basic civil rights and are not being held by adequately trained security officials with proper oversight.
Similar methods are reportedly used in Chinese neighborhoods around the city.
48 comments:
I have a live octopus climbing down the leg of my trousers! Eat that!
Again, the crooks have more rights than the business owner. Keep going and there will be no small businesses left
Again, the crooks have more rights than the business owner.
................................................
Absolutely right fuckin' on! Guilty until proven innocent. That's the way we roll here in the good ole U S of A these days. Businesses large and small should always trample the rights of the individual. What kind of person would think otherwise?
I don't see any problems. Is it just me?
Obviously our laws are not good enough for our new neighbors. How very sad.
Asians are easily cowed when they do wrong. Their natural response in shame and contrition.
Try this in a black or Hispanic neighborhood -watch how long your store lasts.
""Steal one, fine 10."
"It's unclear if the practice is legal in the United States. However, the New York City police department and the Queens district attorney's office said it had not received any complaints about the practice."
Bullshit. They (D-A/police) need to get off their well paid asses and put a stop to this..it's nothing more than extortion.
Lino, when I schedule my next colonoscopy, I'll ask the gastroenterologist if I can use you for the scope since you are an expert in having your head up your ass.
In New York State, a retailer may sue a thief for the item's retail price up to $1500 if the item cannot be resold, along with the penalty of $75 to $500, depending on the item's price.
I'd rather have the DA/Police close down the Tribune's whore houses.
What extortion? It's Chinese-style justice. It sure is better than this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Slow_slicing
That story made my day! If you're caught in action stealing the goods, you're guilty of stealing the good and have no rights. I don't know why there is outrage at the practice.
The liberal pussies who think the crooks need the goods more that the store owners do had better shut up.
Many years ago I worked for an expensive Department store that had elaborate techniques to combat theft. However these techniques would work well with ordinary thefts - the pros were still stealing suits, jewelry, gown etc. When security ( headed by a retired Police Captain and Sargent) caught a pro - they would be interrogated for hours, photographed and beaten to a very bloody pulp and released. Most never came back - I understand other Department stores shared information and pictures of these criminals - and used to do the same - beat them until their bones broke and faces mangled.
georgetheatheist said...
What extortion? It's Chinese-style justice. It sure is better than this"
Whatever.
Our places get beaten for checks regularly. I know -all- the modus operandi. These stores out in frushing get away with this sort of thing because they are dealing with mostly docile people.
Deal with the sorts of people -we- serve and you'll shut your stupid mouth.
In your banal screed you write "may sue a thief for" even if factual you omit one element -Due Process-. You can NOT extort money from someone on your evidence alone.
Here, asshole read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/nyregion/22shoplift.html
Quoting:New York State law allows “shopkeepers’ privileges” that fall somewhere between the prerogatives of the police and a citizen’s arrest. The law also details “civil recovery statutes,” by which retailers may use the threat of a civil lawsuit to recover substantial settlements for even minor thievery. --But threatening to report that someone has committed a crime can be considered a form of extortion.--
There will inevitably be lawsuits.
"Lino, when I schedule my next colonoscopy, I'll ask the gastroenterologist..."
Why would you need a "gastroenterologist'? You always have you head up there already.
I can't freakin' believe what I'm reading - this is America - innocent until PROVEN guilty! How come the store owner is getting away with this?!
I can't see this unorthodox practice lasting very long - the immigrant Asians I guess have yet to learn the American custom of suing someone.
The lawyers who read this will be sitting in the parking lot waiting for the next shoplifter! This is a homerun for them!
Asians really are scum aren't they? Why is it everything they do is so backwards and animalistic?
Lino said...
Asians are easily cowed when they do wrong. Their natural response in shame and contrition.
Try this in a black or Hispanic neighborhood -watch how long your store lasts.
----------------------------------
It doesn't matter whether they are white, black or asian.Lino sure loves to make generalizations about the actions of ethnic groups. I guess Lino has never met an angry Korean in his life, he only encounters angry white or black people.
This practice doesn't just go on in Asian markets. If you were as enlightened as you would like us to believe, you might see that other stores do this all the time. I have seen bodegas in upper Manhattan to markets like Trade Fair in Queens, do this all the time. The last time I bought something in Trade Fair their wall of shame was filled with faces who were Black and Hispanic.
Detective McNutty said...
"I have seen bodegas in upper Manhattan to markets like Trade Fair in Queens, do this all the time."
Trade Fair is a notorious pit. I have been to the one in Astoria, it reminded me of the old style markets that were unkept back in my child hood.
As for bodegas most, if not all of any shame pics you see are props, just as many of the cameras in those places don't work. They are there to deter shoplifters.
But you knew that, right "detective"?
Dear Lino (the Human Colonoscope):
I didn't have to read it; I quoted from it.
Dig:
"Whether this practice is legal in the United States is open to interpretation."
&
"It falls between the prerogative of the police and a citizen's arrest."
&
"...the apparent vagueness of the law..."
&
"Richard Hollinger...said...it COULD [my emphasis] veer into extortion."
This practice is chock full of the conditional mode and the subjunctive tense.
As Al Gore once said "There's no controlling legal authority."
Fine the bastards.
THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!!!
@Lino
I guess it is hard admitting you are an Archie Bunker yourself. Your generalization that it only works in Asian communities is wrong, because you even acknowledge that this practice goes on in business that are not owned by Asians or in Asian neighborhoods.
Trade fair does this in their other stores such as East Elmhurst , where last I looked it was not Asian dominated. The Black and Hispanic people who are props for bodegas must be part of some theater group because who would want their face on a wall of shame and where do they find so many willing participants. Reality is clouding your opinion. I guess cowering is a human instinct rather than something inherent in Asians.
Welcome to the NEW America. Please leave your rights at the door.
Constitution? We don't need no stinkin' Constitution!
Babs (The Human Speculum) said:
"I can't freakin' believe what I'm reading - this is America - innocent until PROVEN guilty! How come the store owner is getting away with this?!
I can't see this unorthodox practice lasting very long - the immigrant Asians I guess have yet to learn the American custom of suing someone.
The lawyers who read this will be sitting in the parking lot waiting for the next shoplifter! This is a homerun for them!
----------------------------------
From the Times article:
"Many of the accused shoplifters . . . are often in the country illegally."
A home run for lawyers? More like a strike-out. What sane lawyer is going to represent an admitted illegal alien who now is a shoplifter?
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www.arizonaguide.com
I do not shoplift and am not a crook, so I'm not really sympathetic to their lot.
Beats cutting their hands off like they still do in certain, um, shall I say, "middle eastern" countries? You know, the places where they practice the religion of peace, but they're not Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddists, Atheists or secular humanists?
First of all let's set the racist remarks aside. People commit crimes because the consequences are not severe enough. These store owners are protecting their "rights." A right to run a business w/o "inventory shrinkage." If the people who read this blog are so worried about their rights then don't steal and you won't have a problem. Let the thief beware!
If the people who read this blog are so worried about their rights then don't steal and you won't have a problem. Let the thief beware!
------------------------------------------------
Of course you won't explore the possibility of false accusations, right? Or misunderstandings? LAME!
The shopowners have no right to be judge and jury. What if it were a case of mistaken identity?
Our laws are in place for damn good reasons -
"If the people who read this blog are so worried about their rights then don't steal and you won't have a problem. Let the thief beware!"
Now I'm even MORE WORRIED!
If you deny others civil rights in ANY situation - you would take mine away too. . .
Detective McNutty said..."Your generalization that it only works in Asian communities is wrong, because you even acknowledge that this practice goes on in business that are not owned by Asians or in Asian neighborhoods....The Black and Hispanic people who are props for bodegas must be part of some theater group because who would want their face on a wall of shame and where do they find so many willing participants.."
And so-on
You are grasping at straws here. What ever you might have seen are generally props copied and handed about among the groups (mostly Paki's) that operate in these areas.
The pics taken from CCTV cams are invariably at angles and of resolution that do not enable adequate facial ID. To gain such shots as this story represented you have to physically constrain the alleged perp and bodegas in tough nabes do not have the resources and man power to risk being shot.
We have these sorts of problems with customers arriving in groups and asking for separate checks. Gradually they will leave one at a time saying they are going out to smoke "get a paper" etc. At end you have two or three of these large gorillas who simply pay their own checks and when confronted about the other in their party often become violent.
The police have been called but can't do much as the only remaining individuals have paid their checks and don't have to offer any info on the others or just simply deny knowing them and say that they thought they would be "right back".
We have had over a dozen instances where these confrontations turned violent and three where gun handles were shown.
We instruct the managers not to engage beyond certain point. No one wants their business being roped off a shooting scene.
BTW: that Flushing store's cctv setup was shown on local tv. The three large lcd monitors showed awful compression artifacts that 'barber poled" movement and it is unlikely they could be used for evidence. They bank, literally on intimidation.
georgetheatheist said...
Dear Lino (the Human Colonoscope)"
-Nothing worse than an old poof schoolmarm getting the red pencil..eh "George"?
"I didn't have to read it; I quoted from it."
Selectively and omitting these points;
"“If a store owner says he’ll call the police unless you pay up, that’s extortion, that’s illegal,” said Steven Wong, a community advocate in Chinatown, sitting in his office above a restaurant on Chatham Square. “And putting up pictures in public, calling someone a thief who has never even been formally charged, that’s a violation of their civil rights.”
"The fines are necessary, [a certain]Mr. Wu said, because the police do not always arrest the accused shoplifters. And even if they do, Mr. Wu said, “The most they’ll get is 24 hours.”
"Many of the accused shoplifters are immigrants who have a heightened fear of authority, and they often are in the country illegally, said Jason Sanchez, 24, who has worked as a security guard at several Chinese markets in Flushing.....“They figure they’ll be deported, so they’ll do anything to get the money,” Mr. Sanchez said. “Some stores ask for $400, or some ask for $200 — it becomes a negotiation.”
Extortion. Plain and simple. Lawsuit and legislation to follow.
I don't see the problem, either.
If you're caught shoplifting in the store, you're caught shoplifting in the store. Seems to me they're causing no bodily harm and are allowing the shoplifters the opportunity to set things right by paying. Just a little humiliation to deter future attempts at stealing. Seems more effective and humanitarian, actually, then a lengthy trial process and jail time.
"Old poof schoolmarm". Nice. I'm going to laminate that for my wallet.
How 'bout "old poof restaurateur"?
Jealous about how the Chinese get a handle on their rip-offs and you can't? Chinese "extortion" of "customers" and your customers flashing you gunhandles? The meek shall inherit the earth...not.
"Lawsuit and legislation to follow".
I can see the headlines now:
ILLEGAL ALIEN SHOPLIFTER SUES SUPERMARKET.
P.S. "Poof"? Lino, the homophobe.
Seems more effective and humanitarian, actually, then a lengthy trial process and jail time.
Perhaps so but due process in the U.S. is a guarantee by the Constitution. People are starting to wake up and see economic growth as a threat to individual rights:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content
/politics/general_politics/june_2010/48_see_
government_today_as_a_threat_to_individual_rights
If we allow our liberties to be dictated by businesses, then we might as well use that precious founding document as toilet paper because that's what it'll be worth!!!
Yes George, Lino is also a Homophobe and a closet racist. Note how he uses the word "Paki" He invariably makes generalizations about ethnic groups based on his own personal experiences. Asians cower, Blacks and Hispanics are violent, and Whites are racists.
Your Dalton education did not help with your reading comprehension. To make it clear, I was refuting your point that this practice only goes on in Asian businesses but even the "Enlightened Lino" has seen perp photos in non Asian stores.
Then again maybe you haven't seen them because if you were observant, you would realize most of these perp photos were taken with Polaroids or digital cameras.
You see straw grasping, I see irony and sarcasm. I can see now why people think of you as a troll, but your also prejudiced and a racist according to the Spike Lee dictionary.
"If we allow our liberties to be dictated by businesses, then we might as well use that precious founding document as toilet paper because that's what it'll be worth!!!"
Should we allow our liberties to be dictated by government? I think we dicate our liberties and government is suppossed to protect them, no?
If i own something and catch you stealing it, I am well within my rightts to take any legal measures, including a reasonable amount of force, to stop the crime. If I make a mistake, and someonehow injure you, you have your remedies as well. I see absolutely nothing illegal amout taking the picture of someone I claim is stealing from me and publishing it in and on my property. As along as I'm willing to pay the costs if I'm wrong.
Detective McNutty said...
"Your Dalton education did not help with your reading comprehension"
-That would be Dalton, Bentley, Rhodes followed, reluctantly, by NYU.
"Then again maybe you haven't seen them because if you were observant, you would realize most of these perp photos were taken with Polaroids or digital cameras."
-Thick as a brick..aren't ya?
If you want a shoplifter to pose for his headshot, you'll need to het get him to go along right Sherlock?
Go luck getting a "Paki" -or any other small store owner to accomplish that.
Earlier this year I was shopping at the pretentiously named "Food Emporium" in my nabe. A skinny black male was confronted by the manager and two latino employees as he tried to exist with some sort of stolen goods.
The guy swung around smashing three bags of groceries awaiting deliveries, sent everything flying. The manager and everyone backed-off and let the crook leave.
In our restaurants we have had furniture and window glasses smashed in these sorts of confrontations.
This is what you are up against in many of these situations. Sorry that your sheltered little Queens neighborhood hasn't prepared you...but its commin'.
georgetheatheist said...
""Old poof schoolmarm". Nice. I'm going to laminate that for my wallet."
Nah! Put above that "kick me I'am an idiot" sign on your backside.
You're losing your edge, Weeno. Running out of steam. You're too desperate now. Please don't embarass yourself any more. But here's a tip. The georgetheatheist school of blog commentary has a few openings for students during this summer's semester. My staff would be happy to review your application. You too can learn sitting at the feet of a master. Think it through. Ask your parents. And then go ahead.
@Lino
Hehe who is sheltered now. Unlike you my world view is not influenced by things that have happened in a restaurant. You really should get out of the service industry if you take such a dim view of your customers.
Thanks for giving instances where store owners confront shoplifters and acknowledging that there are shoplifter galleries in Manhattan bodegas. You have proven my point that it also happens in non Asian businesses.
georgetheatheist said...
You're losing your edge, Weeno. Running out of steam. You're too desperate now. Please don't embarass yourself any more. But here's a tip. The georgetheatheist school of blog commentary has a few openings for students during this summer's semester. My staff would be happy to review your application."
Sorry the indignity of your tuition would be too much for me.
..How ya coming with that sign?
This is an extralegal situation and has nothing to do with due process. A proprietor/shopkeeper/manager has certain rights with regard to property. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
Or are we going to accuse teachers and school principals of unlawful imprisonment of minors?
The bottomline on this - IS: this is America - it is OUR laws that matter ONLY.
It should be OBVIOUS to all that this can and potenially WILL lead to extortion - which the Asian community BTW is famous for and to their OWN. AND of course there would be FALSE accusations made as well.
You must really hold your fellow man in very very high regard - which is not only idealistic but not too intelligent.
The Asians are abusing our democratic system by doing this.
Babs: "...it is OUR laws that matter ONLY."
You obviously haven't read the posts above. There is no controlling legal authority. The store owners have picked-up the fumbled football and have run with it. Touchdown!
The profit margin in retail stores is just a few percent. A few shoplifters can shut down the store.
George - I understand from what I've read thus far that the law is vague on this - I assume simply because NO ONE thought that storeowners would DO something like this -
Similar to the last issue - no laws against eating live octopus - Americans and Europeans just DO NOT do some of the things that they do - and now THIS.
We also don't put lead or anything harmful to our children or pet in food and toys - BUT THEY DO!
So - I cannot understand - at ALL - what's up with some of them.
I tried. Really tried. But it didn't work. I gotta get outta here.
"We also don't put lead or anything harmful to our children or pet in food and toys - BUT THEY DO!
So - I cannot understand - at ALL - what's up with some of them.'
Babs, what you are dealing with here is the clash of established Western values vs. those of foreign cultures.
Some Filipinos carry over the sentiment that when borrowing money from a -friend- (not a business) they are not obligated to pay back. The reasoning: he is a friend and will "understand".
In most S.E.Asian cultures the concept of giving a cash refund for returned or defective products is alien. This until very recently was the norm in Thailand but pressure of foreign visitors and expats have begun to change that.
Our restaurant group had to sue a Greek national who in selling us a location did not disclose about $94.000 debt against the business. A Greek friend told me "that's the way the Greeks do it in Greece. They just walk away, leave it to the next guy".
Aside from the clods in the arguments above, the point I was trying to make is that with an influx of new arrivals and their cultures come practices that don't belong in a civilized society and must be dealt with via legislation.
Clearly, extracting penalty w/out due precess is extortion.
Leen, Did your parents give you the OK yet to attend the georgetheatheist school of blog commentary? Hurry and enroll. Classes start next week. A special cut rate tuition for you. In the promotional code box, type in "me guud". Do it now.
georgetheatheist said...
Leen, Did your parents give you the OK yet to attend the georgetheatheist school of blog commentary?
Remember: "if you become a teacher, by your pupils you'll be taught."
(from Getting To Know You -King and I)
Oh, and it Lee-no..without the lisp (is possible).
BTW: How was the parade.
Attention everyone Lino has a Greek friend.
The shame dude. You come on this blog and denigrate the readers here, calling them "Archie Bunker/ Tea party" types. Meanwhile you continue to spout your generalizations about ethnic groups whether they are true or false. I guess Democrats also have racist voters just like the Republicans. Hello Pot meet the Kettle.
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