The Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn proposed Monday to close at least 14 of its elementary schools as part of a reorganization that officials said they hoped would stem a steady decline in enrollment that has plagued Catholic school systems nationwide for decades.
This would be the second major round of elementary school closings in recent years for the diocese, which comprises Brooklyn and Queens. In 2005, it closed 25, and in the next two years, seven more. If the proposed closings are carried out, the diocese will have shut down nearly one-third of the elementary schools it had just half a decade ago.
Eleven schools are to be closed at the end of the current school year, according to the diocesan plan.
In Queens, the schools are St. Anthony of Padua, St. Benedict Joseph Labre, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Aloysius and Blessed Sacrament.
Some schools would close to merge with others. In Flushing, Queens, St. Michael and St. Ann schools would close to consolidate with St. Mary’s Nativity.
14 Catholic Schools May Shut Down
44 comments:
Several of my childhood friends attended parochial schools, the treatment they received horrified me, it was little short of sadistic.
Verbal -and- physical abuse, their stupid donkey parents were too in-awe of authority to stand up to it. In fact, they had been victims of these sexually frustrated "teachers" as well. The kids who attended these schools turned out to be the same mean spirited lunkheads who see violence as first choice to cover their own inadequacies.
These closings are nothing new, various archdioceses thought the country have had to sell-off and scale back to pay off settlements in the priest-sex abuse scandals.
Not all Catholic schools are like that and produce mean spirited people.The public schools in larger cities are a complete joke across the U.S. where kids get away with anything.The people from public schools learn nothing in the way of respecting others 90% of the time or their enviroment.
Public schools could take a few of the strict guidelines of Catholic or private schools and actually be able to teach something to kids today.
maspeth mom said...
oh yeah - I too, had the same experience as Lino - many friends went to Catholic School - The boys violent and the girls promiscuous.
I moved onto another group of friends.
The description of the past experiences are absolutely true.
The modern parochial schools are no longer that way.
Let's not fall into the Islamic trap of using past resentments to justify current violence. (Your great, great ... grandfather threw my great, great ... grand uncle down the well, so, now, I will throw your wife into the boiling water.)
It's a new day. New people. New experiences. The past is meaningless. As a matter of fact, the past experiences made its victims much stronger.
Keep these schools open. The budget answer is VOUCHERS.
Catholics who oppose VOUCHERS have been co-opted by the church's enemies. Including the UFT.
I went to Catholic School from K-12 and am grateful for the education that I received and for my mother working extra hard to be able to afford to send my brother and me there. I am convinced that you could not possiby get a better education than I did at my schools. And there weren't any child beatings at either school I attended.
"Islamic trap"??? Thanks for displaying bigoted ignorance once again.
I see "taxpayer" is selective conservative.
As a fellow taxpayer I have a simple request:
Keep -my- tax dollars out of the goddamn religions.
Many thanks.
Lino
Has nothing to do with subsidizing religion, it has to do with keeping your kid out of the public school system and making room for someone else's kid. Goes for non-parochial private schools as well.
They are closing because the Archdiocese can't afford to keep them open due to the fact that they are paying off the settlements from pedophile priests and housing them in priest halfway houses in Pennsylvania and other states instead of letting them go to jail where they belong.
I went to Catholic school from K-12 as well as a Catholic University and never experienced any abuse or mean spiritedness. I can honestly say that it was a great experience and I am grateful for my education there. I am still close with all my friends from K-8 and all of us lead successful lives, in all aspects. I wish it was more affordable these days so that more parents could send their children to Catholic school.
Laugh-Of-The-Day:
...."Congrats ! I would be more worried about that cancer tumour growing indside..."
Spoken like a true believer, what's that from, Opie and Anthony?
Again, NO TAX MONEY for religion, get used to it, "Change" has come.
Lino
"Lino said...
Several of my childhood friends attended parochial schools, the treatment they received horrified me, it was little short of sadistic."
I attended Catholic school 1-12 (1955 – 1968) and I had good as well as bad experiences. What I can tell you is that it help shape my life for the better.
In the twelve years I attended I never saw a student talk back to a teacher, nor did I ever see a teacher give up on a student. Weapons in the classroom? Never. Drugs, almost non existent. My first grade class was 105 children, and one nun managed to keep good order.
There Sisters of St Dominic and Catholic lay teachers that I had the pleasure to meet were a dedicated group of people, and though their numbers are fewer today, they are needed more than ever.
Too bad about the public school system, especially in urban areas where it has slipped so badly into chaos and disarray. Even in the worst of parochial schools there, I believe the quality of education is still far better. My parents had to support that system as well as pay for my tuition in Catholic school. I believe they got their money’s worth.
Thanks mom and dad, and thank you to all the teachers in my life that helped to make me who I am today.
The shame of ths closings is that they are in less affluent neighborhoods, where the public shcool system offers students almost no hope.
As a lawyer who has practiced criminal law for years, I can tell lyou that I have represented alot of kids arrested for crimes committed on public school property. Never once have I had to represent a kid for a crime at a catholic school. The reality is that they offer children a safer environment.
Of course, somebody out there is going to make a crack about the priest abuse scandals, but they are living in the past. First of all, 90% or more of the staff at most catholic schools are today made up of lay teachers and i can't think of a single priest i know who is actually teaching in a school because there is such a shortage of priests to do pastoral work. Secondly, most priests today are terrified of being alone with a child anyway because they are scared of the accusation possibilities. The good thing about the publicity surrounding the horrible actions of some priests and some of the bishops (who should all be in jail) is that it created an atmosphere of awareness and caution.
As for the schools themselves, my wife and I , both attorneys, live in a neighborhood with good public schools. As graduates of catholic schools, however, we appreciate what we ssee as the greater level of safety at the school and the greater dedication of the teachers. Our kids are safe, happy and doing well academically. They are also being indoctinated (and i use that word as a compliment)with a moral background that I do not think prevails at public schools. I'm not particularly religious, but it is important to establish the idea of a right and wrong as opposed to the moral relativism that is the fouondation of a public education.
It's all about money . If anyone thought any different then the Catholic school brainwashing worked. They pulled at your heartstrings then your purse strings.
They don't have to close theses schlool, they are because they are businesses that are not performing well. Remember the church , just like any religion is in market to make money. They invest in the stock market , just like you.
They have always preach compassion, yet they will not show any to these school and the children.
Later these properties will be sold off and make the church more money than they could teaching children, They always will.
Also , anyone who attended a Catholic school had good and bad experiences, to make a claim that there weren't any "child beatings" at your school is idiotic. Just because it didn't happen to you or you didn't see it , does not prove that it didn't happen to other children in the school you attended.
Your education has failed you to make such absolute statements like that.
This is only the first round of closings, there will be more.Remember the schools are businesses, investments and if they don't give a return(more of your money to them, they will asked for more) then they have to be let go.
They are closing because the Archdiocese can't afford to keep them open due to the fact that they are paying off the settlements from pedophile priests and housing them in priest halfway houses in Pennsylvania and other states instead of letting them go to jail where they belong.
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The are closing because Queens is no longer a place you want to raise a family (well unless you grew up in Nirobi or Kalcutta or Hanoi).
The Church is apeshit that the Latinos are becoming protestant, so they are bending over backwards for them (Mass at the best time on Sunday, et al)
Their efforts are doomed to failure. The Latinos are still becoming Jehovah Witnesses etc, they do not support the schools, and the older Irish-Italian populations are getting ticked off and withdrawing support.
The church is about a generation away from the catastrophic decline of the protestants (who did the same ethnic pandering coupled with radical politics about 40 years ago triggering a mass exodus from their ranks)
They are up to their ears in payola settlements due to all those pervert priests. Whatever is left goes to illeges since the Pope and Vatican want a huge piece of that crowd.
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"sexually frustrated "teachers"
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No shit!
My mom was a grade school and Wednesday catechism teacher at the old St.Leanards in Bushwick in the 60’s
Half of the nuns were all F_ up and nasty. They hated my mom, one nun Sister Georgette hit me in another kid in the face with a baseball bat in 4th grade.
I jumped out the window and ran home to my grandfather (who was a member of Luigi Bellini’s brigade that hung MUSSOLINI in his old country) ran up to the school with me and his loaded flit musket to “evacuate” the kids WHAT A SCENE !
Turned out the other kids dad was the Sergeant at the 83PCT. The shit hit the fan HARD when 20 other kids came forward and told the detectives about beatings from the nuns.
That was the last days of school in that prison.
The diosis of Brooklyn hid and shelterd all the criminals involved.
Anyway that’s what happens when you don’t let priests and nuns marry.
They were allowed to marry in the past ?
Catholic school is a preference.
I have only good things to say about it. I received a great education.
"to make a claim that there weren't any "child beatings" at your school is idiotic. Just because it didn't happen to you or you didn't see it , does not prove that it didn't happen to other children in the school you attended."
Actually, it does. The nightmare beatings that we heard about happening in past decades were always perpetrated in front of the whole class as a type of humiliation punishment and to intimidate others who might choose to behave similarly. I went to school in the 1980s when the kids and parents would have called the police had this happened, even on a nun or priest. It simply didn't happen. Sounds like you are the one who's been brainwashed, anonymous.
Actually Christina, I can also happen behind closed doors. Priest are still doing it today.
A child of the 80's, so sad.
Your poor education is showing, don't you have a mind of your own.
Are you on the Church payroll.
Priests have not been teaching in Catholic schools for quite some time and therefore are not beating children behind closed doors.
Yes, and even if they did, today's kids are savvy enough to know to report the beating and that would be the end of that.
Maybe anonymous can cite an example of a priest beating a child in Queens within the past 5 years or so and make us all believers.
How far past taxpayer? My parents, myself and my kids all go or went. I spent hours as an altar boy and school volunteer in the rectory and not once did ANYTHING innapropriate take place - to me - and as far as I know to my friends. Were some nuns just plain cruel? Of course - but "in the old days" even public school teachers were allowed to use corporal punishment. Catholic schools in NYC have prduced some of the finest citizens. Please - the only reason they're closing now - is the same reason so many others things change - DEMOGRAPHICS!
perpetrated in front of the whole class as a type of humiliation punishment and to intimidate others
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Christina is correct ...Yep 100 % true
In the old days the would have the whole classroom line up against the walls (remain facing the walls)
Then come up breathing on everybodys neck one by one.
"offenders" were pulled backwards by the hair and beaten.
The whole class was then given some form of punishment (usually 100 pages of some repeated words) to turn the classmates againt the victom.
The cycle would then repeat itself the next day over the homework.
I never saw any girls beaten the nuns just beat boys for some reason.
In my case I was attacked for just talking to a girl.
The crazy nuns liked to tape yellow lines down the center of the classrooms !
In the old days the priests were just drunk or so old you never saw them except in the church on Easter.
...and I never was (nor asked) or wanted to be an alterboy. They only picked small timid German kids for that.
The priests who handled the $$ didnt go near the italian kids they didnt know which ones parents were mafia.
Lots of "Goodfellas and "go see corner men" who looked over the blocks in Bushwick at the time.
Thats why all of them perverts flew the coop when the kids started spilling the beans at St.Leanards at the time.
They likley would have all been whacked.
-Joe
HEY JOE YOUR RIGHT!!!! They knew which kids to pick , like ripe fruit. The Italian kids , some did get from the nuns , but rarely the priest . The Italian fathers knew what they were up to . They knew because it was going on it Italy also.
As far as recent priest being arrest for abuse it happen in Rich Hill a few years ago, but most of the new cases are not released to the media to protect the child. The priest are just moved for "counseling"
somewhere so they can't be seen or touched.
It 's the children who are the victims CHRISTIAN not the priest or the church.
Get it.
I think Mr. Anonymous is confusing sexual molestation with physical abuse. Priests generally do not have direct contact with children, so your argument appears to be based on nothing.
Priest have contact with children all the time, are you nuts!!! If they didn't why are there still abuses going on today. Physical abuse or sexual abuse, are both wrong, I'm not confusing them.
So if you didn't see it , it didn't go on???
So sad.
Christina WAKE UP!
"Islamic trap"??? Thanks for displaying bigoted ignorance once again.
Yes thats a bad narrow view of Islam to say the least.Im glad I had a few years at private schools but wouldnt want to be there for 12.
I love these dopey dago's like Joe who wax so poetically about the so-called mafia tough guys of Bushwick. How come we used to see the Irish beat cops slap the shit out of those "corner men" time and time again? Go romanticize with your garlic smelling wife you ignorant guinea bastard.
No wife (no more of that domestic incarcaration B.S) but girlfriends Polish-Lithuanian & Cherokee ..hates garlic
Tuff Irish guys in Bushwick in the 60's ?
Honestly I cant think of of one ...Ok Bernadette who lived on the corner.
The Irish lived on the other side north of the creek.
Nobody messed with the "corner men" not even the Cops and Black Panthers in Dr.Cooks old joint.
I attended St. Ann in Flushing, on of the schools that will be closing/merging, and I have to say I received an excellent education compared to what I would have rceived in the neighborhood public school.
The Catholic school of the 50's,60's, etc is long gone. I only knew of maybe 1 or 2 nuns that taught classes, the rest being lay teachers. Abuse just didn't happen, and it doesn't happen the way it did back then.
I attended Archbishop Molloy High School, which is run the Marist Brothers. There are several brothers that teach classes, but none of them have ever been accused of abuse, and I can't see that happening. I received an education at Molloy that was beyond amazing, and the experiences I had there would never have occurred in a public high school.
Talk about ignorance, you people are the number one bigots. Catholic isn't synonomous with corruption or pedophilia - think beyond the stereotypes. You didn't like the Islam comment, but you share the same mindset. Interesting, isn't it?
Christina - are you trying to defend the bigoted Islam comment?
I made the initial post that the Islam comment was bigoted and ignorant, and I didn't post any negative comments about Catholics or Catholic schools. I went to to Catholic schools my entire life and didn't personally see any abuses, although I find the Church's general cover-up of priest sexual abuses as abhorrent. I found the Catholic schools to be too proselytizing of very young children, but the education was good, I believe the standards were higher than most public schools, and as I said, I wasn't aware of any abuse.
Christina, it is obvious that you are still a student.
I went to Catholic school also, and if you think the sexual and physical stop in the 60's , your nuts!
It has also been done by lay teachers also , and still occurs today in all type of school not just catholic.
Remember , you were only allowed to go to Molloy
H.S, because it was losing student's. IF they didn't let the girls in, it would have closed. I'm actually glad you went there, but the brothers weren't interested in you because you are a girl. Get it.
Let the girls in , they stay open. Boys still available.
Eventually Molloy will close.
I along with my two sisters and brother went to St. Catherines. It is a shame to see this school closed. My mother also was a teacher's aid there before she retired. If I was the parents of the students left in SCS, I would not pay anymore tuition. What for, they are kicking them out and what schools are they going to send these kids to. There are several reasons why parents send their children to private schools. And now the ecnonmy is taking that away. Are you trying to make the public schools over crowded? Half the teachers don't care about the students as is now you are going to add students that want to learn to an over crowded situation. Come on government, work something out for our kids!!!!!
Christina, it is obvious that you are still a student.
I went to Catholic school also, and if you think the sexual and physical stop in the 60's , your nuts!
It has also been done by lay teachers also , and still occurs today in all type of school not just catholic.
Remember , you were only allowed to go to Molloy
H.S, because it was losing student's. IF they didn't let the girls in, it would have closed. I'm actually glad you went there, but the brothers weren't interested in you because you are a girl. Get it.
Let the girls in , they stay open. Boys still available.
Eventually Molloy will close.
You can't be more wrong. Molloy consitently operates in the balck and has a well desrved national stellar reputation. It has produced some of the finest graduates ever. And the reason it made the (in my opinion unfortunate) decision to allow girls was not because it needed the money (that makes no sense at all???)was becasue they were losing the smartest boys to the all-scholarship school, Regis. The one place that was hurt by Molloy's decision was mary louis, which now had competition for the brightest girls from Queens. Ask any parent out there whose children went to one or the other.
Most of my Family went to Molloy, They would have closed if it wasn't for the girls.
As for Mary Louis girls being Queens brightest, that's the funniest thing I've heard on this site yet.The girls that go there can't make it to Molloy or Prep. It's their last chance.
There will always be anti-Catholics. But, they will NEVER win. They can be products of private, parochial or public schools. Nevertheless, they are stupid.
All the violence described here to describe parochial school experience occurs in ANY school, public, private or parochial.
Clergy from all religions can have the propensity to abuse kids physically or sexually.
So, all you anti-Catholics, keep it real with your comments.
On Islamism. It is simple fact that the illiterate, poor, violent Muslims hoard and cultivate their ancient resentments and then act on them.
Am I supposed to be silent on facts? Speaking of facts is not bigoted.
Maspeth moms said.
Maybe the beating in catholic schools arent physical amymore but they definetly are emotional beatings. If you dont fall in line with the other kids you are sorted out and made to be ashamed that you are different. You cant march to the beath of a different drummer in catholic school, They dont want independent thinkers. They want kids that can easily control.
Christianity is a toxic mind set.
As to the lawyer and his wife who are posting on this blog- I am sure Catholic school gave you all your moral values. We dont need the 10 commandements any more - We have laws now(made by politician and lawyers who craft them)
As for children - the girls who were my friends - definatly way more promiscuos than other girls I knew. They were the first to do everything.
And oh yeah - their Catholic Moms knew where to get abortions easily.
So Taxpayer states as "fact" that "anti-Catholics" are stupid and people of Islamic faith are poor, illiterate and stupid. And this is one of Queens Crap's top commenters. Thanks for showing everyone how bigoted and completely unintelligent you really are. Your lack of knowledge of the world is embarrassing.
Why don't you study how the Catholic Church institutionalizes discrimination. Or how it enabled Hitler preceding WWII. Or how the current Pope, a Nazi youth when he was a child, set policy to cover-up priest sexual abuses when he ran the Vatican before he was Pope. Or how the Church's positions hijack advancing medical research on stem cells. I think you are too far gone in your prejudice and small-mindedness to contribute anything useful.
- A Bigger Taxpayer
"So Taxpayer states as "fact" that "anti-Catholics" are stupid and people of Islamic faith are poor, illiterate and stupid."
Must have gone to public school because he failed reading comprehension. If you are "anti" any religion, it means you are intolerant and, yes, stupid. He never stated that all people of Islamic faith were poor, illiterate and stupid, he stated that the illiterate, stupid and poor ones hoard and cultivate their ancient resentments and then act on them. Kind of like the KKK, which I am sure you denounce.
Crapper, did you finish school at all, because your interpretation of Taxpayer's comments isn't very impressive. The fact that you are defending his offensive bigotry is telling. So illiterate, poor Irish Catholics didn't wage terrorist activities in Northern Ireland for decades? Was it not the violent Catholics and plundered, slaughtered and raped in Jerusalem during the Crusades? When the Moors exercised religious tolerance in Spain, was it not the Christians who expelled them and then violently disallowed any other religion? I am not saying that Catholicism is any worse that any other religion, they all have their good and bad points, but Taxpayer's comments, and your defense of them, are ignorant.
Being anti-religion means you are stupid? So Christopher Hitchens is stupid? Richard Dawkins is stupid? Robert Pirsig? Sam Harris? Disagreeing with the Catholic Church's and other religions' negative societal influences is stupid? Crapper you are so out of your league with this discussion. Stick to taking pictures of buildings and leave the high level subject matters to those with the knowledge and intellect to handle them.
Once again you are injecting twisted logic into this discussion.
You are not supposed to hate or be "anti" anyone. You are supposed to strive to get along with all people of all religions (or lack thereof), all nationalities, and all skin colors. At least that is what is taught in Catholic schools. Is that so terrible?
I don't need a history lesson about the Crusades, not denouncing Hitler, etc, because the fact that they happened and were wrong is also part of the Catholic school curriculum. 7th grade, as I recall.
Go ahead and try to come up with some other wacky interpretations. You're not winning. You're just stewing.
Moron Anon said:
"... Crapper you are so out of your league with this discussion. Stick to taking pictures of buildings and leave the high level subject matters to those with the knowledge and intellect to handle them."
Great advice, moron; now apply it.
Crapper clearly was able to comprehend my original comments - a result of a great Catholic Parochial school foundation.
Obviously, Crapper did all the assignments and passed all the tests.
As Crapper alluded, the KKK, the Jihadists, the anti-Catholics, the anti-Semites, the skinheads, are really just one bunch of the same very stupid, illiterate, hateful people who can be so easily stirred into new hatreds by the sounds and sights of the objects of their vicious hatred.
These haters jump when commanded and blather on the rants they've learned to repeat, just like children reciting the alphabet, or counting as high as 4 or 5, whatever their intellect permits.
As for me, I have no tolerance at all for the intolerant morons who set out to poop in other people's homes. So, I hate the haters.
I am bigoted against the bigots.
These are useless bacteria disguised in human form.
I attended Most Precious Blood in Astoria and Mater Christi HS there too. Wonderful schools. Part of the school closing problem is the lack of vocations among Hispanics. They have large families but don't encourage their children to enter the religious life. These new immigrants are mostly "takers." Paying lay teachers is costing too much..women don't want to be nuns anymore..how sad.
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