From the NY Post:A state lawmaker is trying to hit the brakes on rogue cyclists.
Assemblyman Michael DenDekker (D-Queens) has introduced a bill that would mandate registration -- much as for motor vehicles -- for every bicycle in the state, complete with license plates hanging from the rear of the seats.
He also proposed a separate measure that would force every commercial cyclist in the state to carry identification and have insurance.
If the bill passes, the license plates would cost $25 in the first year and $5 each additional year for recreational cyclists.
Commercial cyclists -- such as deliverymen -- would pay $50 for the registration plus the cost of insurance.
He introduced the bills last week in response to the major expansion of bike lanes throughout the city under Mayor Bloomberg and city Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan.
55 comments:
Washington, DC abandoned this idea after some years when it proved too costly and impractical with budget woes looming:
http://newsroom.dc.gov/show.aspx/agency/ddot/section/2/release/13858/year/2008/month/5
The NYPD already offers voluntary registration with ID etching for the purpose of bike recovery in the event of theft.
In short, this program would add to bike costs to governments while discouraging biking despites its proven benefits to safety, environment, and quality of life.
License plates suitable for many different bicycle types might be difficult to design and install, and where would it stop? Would unicycles register? Skate boards? Scooters? Inline skates? All are wheeled transit methods with users often found in bike lanes.
That said, reforms in the commercial sector might be warranted, in my opinion. For example, electric bikes that are fully motorized (as opposed to being capable of uphill assists) could be categorized as mopeds. At the moment, commercial operators must provide ID and such but I believe store or business ownership should be much more obvious (required sign, shirt, or such). Also, liability should rest with businesses that might be pressuring employees to unsafely rush.
"liability should rest with businesses that might be pressuring employees to unsafely rush."
There are plenty of commuter or recreational bicyclists that have caused bodily harm to other cyclists and/or pedestrians. They need to be held accountable, and a license plate and insurance may be a way to do that.
I still fail to see how this would discourage biking. It would cost less than the price of 2 movie tickets to register the bike for a year. $5 per year after that to renew.
"Would unicycles register? Skate boards? Scooters? Inline skates? All are wheeled transit methods with users often found in bike lanes."
How many people are injured by these other "wheeled transit methods"? How many of these methods have their own dedicated lanes?
I hope it passes, then the city and taxpayers can subsidize for the other things involved in registering/licenscing.
Licenses, administrative costs, beefier cop enforcement (that we all know won't work)
Then Queens Crap will be in essence paying for something he hates?
Nice.
@ Erik, weak Arguments all. Voluntary Registration with ID Etching, is as you noted, for bike recovery. "Designing suitable license plates" is a nit. the license plates already exist and are in use on motorcycles.
Bike lanes are for bicycles only, we've all heard cyclist stridently state that often enough. When cyclists are asked to be accountable for their actions they all howl. It's time and it's coming.
The cost of the licenses pay for the administrative costs.
Plus let's remember there are really not all that many bicyclists. They overinflate their numbers to make it look as though they have some kind of mass, but in reality, they don't.
These are the people who love to see drivers pay fees on top of fees on top of fees. Doesn't feel so good now that the shoe is on the other foot, does it?
Great idea! Forest Hills is really dangerous at night due to all the delivery guys going the wrong way down one-way streets and sailing through stop signs and lights.
But you know a lot of the people making those deliveries don't have ID. It could work if the restaurants assume responsibility. But then that opens a can of worms as to whom they're hiring for these deliveries.
If it'll prevent near misses on the sidewalks, I say go for it. Bikers' Education?
"http://newsroom.dc.gov/show.aspx/agency/ddot/section/2/release/13858/year/2008/month/5"
Washington's registration program dealt with recovery of stolen bicycles not with accountability/liability issues.
Bike registration has absolutely nothing to do with personal safety....
The state has simply identified a potentially new revenue stream for itself.
To QueensCrapper:
You said: " It would cost less than the price of 2 movie tickets to register the bike for a year. $5 per year after that to renew."
What about the insurance costs? A family with a couple of kids with bikes would be paying a fortune for this galactically stupid idea. DenDekker should go back to being a garbage man.
Again, anytime you add layers of bureaucracy you discourage a behavior. In this case, you discourage an improvement that city planners worldwide have adopted. NYC is especially suitable, given its relatively flat landscape, density. Even Queens is dense by national standards -- and I don't mean in the sense that some comments reflect. :)
The fees are just the start. Insurance would likely cost the equivalent of the bikes themselves and be repeated annually. Most bikes in NYC are "beaters," meaning well-loved old clunkers. Unless you want us all zipping around on faster bikes?
I noted the etching because one of the supposed benefits of registration is that bikers could reclaim their property faster. This is false.
As for accidents, actually, yes, there are accidents between skaters, skater boarders, and others. People who prefer these modes also use bike lanes routinely. I'll spare the unicyclists too much examination. Of course none of these modes, including biking, can come near to matching the deaths caused by cars.
On that note, again, thank goodness that in the past ten years deaths by car accident have plunged in NYC. Was this because divers have gotten calmer, more considerate, more attentive, and quicker witted? Quite the opposite. But our streets are better designed with bike lanes and paths, pedestrian sections and islands, bumps, built out corners, etc.
I don't see this expensive system succeeding in our budget-challenged times. It would be stupid in the best of times, but unfordably stupid now.
"I still fail to see how this would discourage biking."
For someone like myself who just takes a bike ride a couple of times a year to get some air and exercise, this tax is pretty unfair and having to register is more hassle than it's worth.
And these are just the teaser/bait and switch fees. Watch how fast these fees move upwards, as the politicians take advantage of yet another group without enough numbers to have significant political clout.
$5 a year probably doesn't even cover the administrative costs of renewing. We need more government bureaucracy like we need a hole in the head.
Also, bike lanes are not made for us outer borough occasional rec riders. Unless you live in Manhattan or parts of Brooklyn, bike lanes are not needed or wanted.
"For someone like myself who just takes a bike ride a couple of times a year to get some air and exercise, this tax is pretty unfair and having to register is more hassle than it's worth."
If you only ride a bike twice a year, it would be more feasible that you rent one at the park. They would cover the insurance, license plate and registration and you would avoid government bureaucracy.
"A family with a couple of kids with bikes would be paying a fortune for this galactically stupid idea."
Bill only covers adults.
the so-called pedicabs with rain hoods look like three wheeled out houses ,biking in manhattan.
the bikers involved in pedestrian accidents have to be identified by license. and held responsible.
If you only ride a bike twice a year, it would be more feasible that you rent one at the park."
Considering that I already own a bike, and that I don't know of any parks in the area that rent bikes, the idea is ludicrous.
"hey would cover the insurance, license plate and registration and you would avoid government bureaucracy." Traveling a great distance to rent a bike in a no doubt crowded park would not be avoiding govt bureaucracy, it would be allowing the bureaucracy to control my option of where and when to take a bike ride.
Sorry, but all this anti bike sentiment is pretty phony. Only a few are really honest and admit that it's just a backlash to the newly imposed bike lanes that many, even bikers, do not want. If you want to threaten registration and enforcement as a punishment for the administration's implementation of some cycling infrastructure, fine, but be honest about it. I didn't hear any of this outrage about safety and rule enforcement in the decades before the new bike lanes.
I agree! I think those bike riders can pay for all those dam bike lanes us drivers have to deal with. If they want this and that, pay for it now! Then they can have a right to bitch about bike lanes.
Erik Baard said...
" Again, anytime you add layers of bureaucracy you discourage a behavior. In this case, you discourage an improvement that city planners worldwide have adopted."
The behavior that would be discouraged one would hope would be irresponsible operation of a bicycle.
Irresponsible cyclists brought this upon themselves.It's been a long time coming.I believe this all began with bicycle messengers back in the 1980's and the "Cowboy" attitude they vest themselves in.
'bout time I'd say
So we'd have to pay $100 for a family of four to register our bikes, (and $25 for each new bicycle we buy for our growing kids), then $20 per year (for a family of four), plus the cost of having the bikes "inspected" (by whom?). Because why? Because some delivery guys don't abide by the rules.
Does anyone remember the bike messengers in Manhattan during the 1980s (before the fax machine)? You couldn't step into the street without a pack of them racing down the road. We somehow managed to survive them without resorting to this kind of stupidity.
I'm quite sure that reckless drivers, especially black cars and cabs, cause many more deaths and serious injuries than people on bicycles. How many people are killed by a reckless bicycle rider per year? None? One?
And let's not forget about how many little fat kids we have waddling around who could use the exercise of riding a bike. And yes, $100 for a family of four ($125 for a family of five) will discourage people from riding bikes. Sort of common sense there.
is a so-called pedicab considered a COMMERCIAL CYCLE under this bill?
One more thing: Bill applies to ALL bicycles, not just for adults. Bill is A.5429, and reads in part:
Section 1. The vehicle and traffic law is amended by adding a new section 401-c to read as follows:
"Every personal bicycle shall be registered annually...shall be issued a license plate identifying it as a personal bicycle. Personal bicycles shall be issued a license plate upon passing an inspection by the Department. The Inspection shall require that the bicycle conforms with the lamp and equipment requirements of §1236 of this Chapter. The fee for such license plates shall be twenty-five dollars the first year and shall be reduced to five dollars thereafter.
"License plates issued to persons under the age of 18 shall bear a distinctive mark as determined by the Commissioner."
Really Crapper a cost of two movie tickets..I have three kids so you think that if my family wants to go for a bike ride in Cunningham park I need to fork over over a hundred dollars. How can anyone think this will solve anything..the people who dont follow the rules now, will still blow lights and ride the wrong way down a one way street and the middle class will as usual foot the bill. We dont need more laws and legislation when they cant even enforce the ones that are there now.
You have to ask the question
They say you have to register your car/get a license because it is a "privilege not a right"
Who determines what is, and is not a right? Is walking? "Walking on a sidewalk is a privilidge not a right"
What's fun - Picture the worst cyclists - How do you stop them if they DON'T have a tag? Seriously? You hop up on the sidewalk, ride, down the street, cop a turn down a wrong way one way or whatever. No cop on FOOT can keep up, unless the RMP is willing to drive the wrong way down a 1 way street, or up on a sidewalk etc, the RMP isn't going anywhere, unless they are willing to use a radio to call in other units, that's not going to work, so it leaves two choices - bicycle cops, and mounted units. Uh Huh...
It's another case of "the only people who are going to listen to this are the folks who aren't a problem to begin with"
It doesn't matter if the bill covers adults. It is a stupid bill, period. Those of us who go for leisurely rides should not be punished by having to register, pay fees, insurance and so much nonsense.
DumbDekker sounds like a guy with way too much time on his hands. What has this world come to?
Afraid of an open discussion? You are disappointing your readers and killing your own blog. Nice going crappy.
I'm not intending for you to post this, just want to give you one readers opinion.
When I was hit by a red-light running cyclist, he sped off. If he had a plate, I would have been able to file a report, sue, etc. Instead I had to take unpaid time off.
Laws like this are long, long overdue.
Anyone against them can blame their psychotic out of control cyclist friends who think they're too &*^%&^% good for red lights, stop signs, etc. Even a god damned 5 year old knows what a red light means. These people need to grow up and eat it. you make your bed that's where you lay.
"Afraid of an open discussion? You are disappointing your readers and killing your own blog. Nice going crappy."
I was away from my computer all day. Believe it or not, I don't sit here waiting for commenters to say something.
"He also proposed a separate measure that would force every commercial cyclist in the state to carry identification and have insurance.'
What planet is he on? NO commercial operation in this city would have it's employees acting in their interest without having liability written into their wrap-around.
Maybe some mom 'n pop out in the sticks, but not here with all the lawyer swimming around looking for blood you would be nuts to chance being sued into bankruptcy.
This Assemblyman was the same one proposing that motorists be awarded $100 for flawed or erroneous tickets. While this may be a good idea in some cases, he is clearly siding with car owners and his position on bicycles should be taken in that context.
Another layer of revenue generating government BS. And please, please, dont give us this - 'I was hit by a bicycle and if it had a license plate, we couldve caught the criminal' line.
I got a nasty black eye and had to wear an eyepatch for over 6 weeks because a woman with a shopping cart wheeled past me with some blinds sticking out of the cart and clocked me in the face. I was bent down a bit tending to my daughter in her carriage. She was probably shufflin too fast. And BOOM. It stung.
I chalked it up to...... LIFE. No lawsuits.
GROW UP. Stop acting like childish little girls by worrying about having license plates on BICYCLES.
Getting what amounts to a painful black eye is not exactly like having your hip broken by a biker who failed to stop for a red light, now is it?
"GROW UP. Stop acting like childish little girls by worrying about having license plates on BICYCLES."
childish = little girls (and boys)
Adults should act like adults, and pay their fair share. You want bike lanes, pay for them. Plain and simple.
Annnnnd a license plate would have cured that broken hip? Maybe what we need is a Department of Pedal Powered Vehicles, the DPPV, so we can stand on ridiculous lines so we can ride a friggin BICYCLE.
"Hello Missus DPPV lady, my 4 year old needs a license plate for her tricycle. How should I write out the check to the City?"
I think you better start riding with a helmet. A license plate would not have cured the broken hip, moron. The license plate just might have ensured that the person who slammed into the poor old lady crossing the street was held accountable for their actions. The lady's medical bills would have been paid for by his insurance and she would not have had Medicare/Medicaid pay for it (which means taxpayers footing the bill).
How about that?
When bikeholes really don't want something I like how they pull stupid extreme examples out of their asses. Your 4 year old on her tricycle does not require a license plate. A tricycle is not a bicycle and the law applies to bicycles. Learn the difference.
Considering kids walk around with I-Phones, I-Pods, the latest handheld video games, etc, I don't think $25 for a bike plate is really that out of the question.
finally, a democrat politician with common sense.
he is going after the bike delivery, illegal alien jockeys,"employed by the restaurant owners on the U.E.S.
With all of the taxes that are presently in place to help pay for all of the inequities that out law makers have made it's about time that someone puts a halt to this attrocity. If all of the elected officials in New York took a pay cut or if we got rid of 50% of these people New York could save 11million dollars a year. Why don't you leave the people that can't afford a car and insurance alone while they ride a bike to work for minimum wage. You are a disgrace to the American people that elected you to your position. Give up your health care, and leave the bike riders alone. Don't you know that GREED is one of the seven deadly sins. I'd address you as Mr. but you don't deserve that title.
"With all of the taxes that are presently in place to help pay for all of the inequities that out law makers have made it's about time that someone puts a halt to this attrocity. If all of the elected officials in New York took a pay cut or if we got rid of 50% of these people New York could save 11million dollars a year. Why don't you leave the people that can't afford a car and insurance alone while they ride a bike to work for minimum wage. You are a disgrace to the American people that elected you to your position. Give up your health care, and leave the bike riders alone. Don't you know that GREED is one of the seven deadly sins. I'd address you as Mr. but you don't deserve that title."
Stupid crybaby response. Drop dead loser liberal.
... and nobody seems to have addressed the fact that this clown DenDekker wants to force this on the WHOLE STATE. Here in Western NY (about 450 miles from NYC) don't have:
1. Bike lanes
2. Bicycle messengers/delivery people
3. The ability to vote out meddling assemblymen from Queens
We do, however, still have to deal with cyclists who run red lights. And vehicles which run lights and stop signs, turn without signaling, etc.
On the subject of a bike license plate allowing a victim to identify an offending cyclist: I ride at about 25MPH. Unless that plate is the size of a billboard, good luck making note of the number. In all the times motorists have come close to hitting me, I have never once managed to get the plate number, and that's a 12x6-inch plate.
Finally, before someone attacks me for being a cyclist: remember I live in Western NY. We all drive here. I'm a car enthusiast as well as a cyclist.
I like how when the QC is making a stupid argument, terms like "bikehole" are deployed. You're notably silent about countless reductio ad absurdum arguments posted here. Bikes make you batty. Got it. I've already invested too much energy in making rational cases against your hysteria.
I am, however, grateful for some of your other causes, like aspects of neighborhood preservation, tree stewardship to follow tree planting, and fighting corruption. And you usually refrain from vulgarity a bit more in the pursuit of these ends, which all harmonize with biking quite nicely.
That said, a funny story.
A friend, Roger, who lived here for a few years on assignment with a hotel chain was a daily bike commuter. One day while riding from Sunnyside to Astoria he came up a street with a long row of double-parked cars. A car behind him starting honking aggressively.
Roger kept riding -- the double-parked row was only half a block or three quarters of a block. The driver then sped around at the end of the row and nearly brushed Roger, only to get stuck behind other cars at a light.
Roger asked him what his problem was. He started screaming obscenities and saying, "Ride on the f'ing sidewalk!" Roger slipped him the bird and road off when traffic moved.
The driver again deliberately tried to force Roger off the road, and stopped and cursed. Roger announced that he was calling 911 and started dialing. The driver said, "I'll give you something to call about!" and looped around and came right at Roger. He abandoned his bike and dove behind a garbage bin.
The driver crashed into his bike on the sidewalk and pushed it across toward the wall, and then back up and sped off.
The cops arrived. One cop asked Roger, "Did you get his license plate?" Roger said that he didn't. The other cop called out, "I'm pretty sure you got his license plate." Roger again said that he didn't. The cop repeated his assertion. "I really think you got his license plate."
As Roger told me, he thought, "Is this some kind of Jedi mind trick cops use now?" But the cop walked him over the his mangled bike. Wedged into it was the car's license plate! The case went very for Roger.
Whoops. Flipped him the bird. Not "slipped." That would be invasive and certain to induce road rage and maybe road 'roids. ;)
Actually, bicycles don't drive me batty. Their self-entitled pseudo environmentalist riders who are now worshipped by the city because doing so diverts attention from not having adequate mass transit for the overpopulation being encouraged is what drives me batty.
Biking and mass transit are not at odds. They are advocated by the very same people,
My 4 year old wont need a license for her tricycle, thank you for the clarification, but in the fall, when she graduates to a bicycle, she will.
QC, I have as much a problem with stupid cyclists as you do, but this is punitive and silly.
I have a funny story for you, Erik. I was walking on the sidewalk and a biker came from around the corner and almost hit me. I said with sarcasm, "Excuse me." He said, "You have to look where you're going also." That's when I blew a gasket and screamed, "You're not even supposed to be on the sidewalk, what part of that don't you get?" He had no response. Pretty funny, huh?
Just what we need more fees.......
So delivery guys are hitting people, so we need to register everyone? How about just the bikes used for commercial purposes?
Also, family of 4 is $100 assuming only 4 bikes. Since biking is my primary exercise, I currently have and use 2 different types of mountain bikes, and am in the market for a road bike as we speak.......$25 fee(tax really) on each bike?
As a biker, let me say that the area of flushig and Bayside where I ride is far more dangerous for the biker than anyone else. Pedestrians frequently walk in front of me even when i have a green light. Car doors opened by the oblivious have caused me numerous injuries in the past.
Dangerous bikers can already be dealt with, note the police enforcement in brookly and manhattan, enough tickets, and people will learn. Just don't penalize those of us who follow the rules, ride safe, and just want to have a nice ride to forget the stress of the day.
This proposal has been dropped.
@Anonymous: Not as funny as Roger's story, but you were correct to be outraged by a biker on the sidewalk claiming equal ground.
Wow, that was faster that the rise and fall of the golden voiced homeless guy.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2011/03/thats-ix-nay-on-the-ny-bicycle-license-plates-idea-says-assemblyman-michael-de
"Dangerous bikers can already be dealt with, note the police enforcement in brookly and manhattan, enough tickets, and people will learn."
Yes, but they are not really enforcing dangerous behavior, but giving out tickets on silly technicalities like not having a bell, and rolling through lights when there are no pedestrians or motor vehicles around, particularly in the central park loop.
I'm all for cracking down on dangerous behavior, but honing in on petty shit is pretty stupid, like when Guiliani did it to us motorists in the 90's. Enforcing every letter to the law is not how things have ever been done in this city, particularly with respect to cars. I'm ok with that, but then don't expect police to target cyclists with these tactics without it coming around to bite us motorists in the ass when they run out of cyclists to ticket and then focus on us.
The Assemblyman, Michael G. DenDekker, Democrat of Queens, said he had been flooded with complaints from people who lived outside the city that they were being taxed and regulated to address concerns about unsafe cycling that existed largely in New York City."
Lawmaker Withdraws Bike-License Bill
Now there's something to be proud of. Gee I hope the ecofriendly set sent a bunch of faxes to him too.
Enough people feel strongly about an issue to voice their opinion and convince a representative that it is a bad idea and you view this as a bad thing? Perhaps if this were to occur more often for other issues, we wouldn't have some of the Queens Crap problems that you highlight on a daily basis.
BTW, you left this part out of the quote: "The measure had also drawn fire from cycling advocates in the city and elsewhere."
You have an interesting way of interpreting comments. At no point did I say people expressing their opinion was a bad thing. And I "left out" part of the quote about bicycle advocates because, duh, we expect them to take that position.
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