Bob Singleton, of the Greater Astoria Historical Society and the friends group, said he wouldn’t comment before hearing from the owners, one of whom is Philip Loria of an Astoria-based law firm, but noted there is a great love for the structure.
Last May, when they bought the mansion, he said they don’t plan to tear it down.
“We want to create a win-win for everyone,” Loria said.
After multiple attempts to contact Loria, an employee at Loria & Associates said Wednesday that he does not plan to comment on the matter for a while.
Oh you want plans? Well, take a look. It ain't pretty.
52 comments:
there's nothing to comment on - the main structure is landmarked and the grounds are being turned into row houses. Check the subdivision zoning documents.
-somethingstructural
How can row houses be built in a manufacturing zone? The plan is more likely for warehouses.
Mr Caliendo, who is the architect on the Steinway 'Warehouses' is president of the Rufus King Museum in Jamaica.
I call for the Board of Rufus King to investigate his record.
As is most problems in Astoria, this one was bungled by the Vallones, who have dragged in Gianaris and Crowley.
Now poor Costa, hiding behind his desk and afraid to talk to the press after he shilled for the developers just after the purchase, is left holding the bag acting as little more than their agent.
If he was smart, he would cut them loose and put as much real estate between himself and the growing mess. This was not something of his making and basically he is a good guy in over his head.
No we can all thank the Vallones for dropping the ball on a great opportunity at capping that sewage plant (that the Vallones swear is on Randals Island), to say nothing about putting Steinway on the map as a major tourist destination and education center.
Already behind the scenes the community is starting to grumble about an opportunity being frittered away by the politicians.
As attention slowly starts to spread out of their little hamlet into the outside world pressure will begin to build for adults to step in.
Steinway guards their image very carefully and have considerable clout behind them to stop anyone stupid enough to challenge or damage it. No doubt a media savvy company like them are fully aware of this budding disaster and are studying everything that is going on very closely.
I would not want to get on their bad side.
Sooner or later Borough Hall will have to step if their efforts at burnishing the image of Queens as a tourist destination become distracted by possible activity (that some whisper) that could be store for us once those shadowy tenants move into their warehouses.
That's big of the owner not planning to tear the mansion down. He can't it's a municipal landmark.
What he can do is whatever pleases his bottom line ambitions. A lawyer always looks at his bottom line, and to increase his profits to the max. Maybe he plans to surround the mansion with a wall of over development. It is industrial zoned. Is it not?
And where is Vallone and Katz? Taking money from their developer friends to facilitate their political carreers.
the grounds are being turned into row houses. Check the subdivision zoning documents.
---
That makes sense. They can change the zoning. The place gets flooded and has rats, the plans show buildings that will be 75% basement, is next to the sewage plant and is blocks from anything - stores, cleaners, etc.
The Steinway Slum. I am sure the people in the area will be happy to hear about this.
It's already not a "win-win" for people who like trees.
Bizarro world: Caliendo protects the historical legacy of the King Manor in Jamaica put destroys the historical legacy of the Steinway Mansion in Astoria.
Is this nuts or what?
Read it and weep:
Gerald J. Caliendo, King Manor Board President
Mary Anne Mrozinski, Executive Director. Roy Fox, King Manor historian & Caretaker. Members of the King Manor Board of Directors. Are your reading this?
Mission of the King Manor Association
Organizational Mission Statement
Founded in 1900, King Manor Association of L.I., Inc. operates King Manor as a historic house museum to preserve and interpret the home and legacy of Rufus King. Our mission is to involve and educate children and adults in local and national history through an innovative presentation of King Manor and its collection in the context of life in Jamaica and the United States in the early 19th century. The only historic house museum in Southeast Queens, King Manor serves a largely minority and immigrant community and engages its audiences through historic site tours, interactive exhibits, lectures, public programs, and school and community outreach. Collections management, preservation, and architectural, archaeological and historical research are continuous activities at the museum. OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE HISTORY RELEVANT AND IMMEDIATE, AND TO FOSTER AN AWARENESS OF THE ROOTS OF THE PRESENT AND A DEEPER APPRECIATION OF HISTORY AS AN ON-GOING PROCESS. [My emphasis.]
(The original statement can be found here.
And so what do they do? They have has their Board President, Gerald Caliendo, a destroyer of the Steinway legacy, who is the antithesis of this mission statement.
Challenge period is closed, but, for heaven's sake, find an architect who can show you the errors in this Zoning Diagram!! http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanJobDocumentServlet?requestid=4&passjobnumber=420652065&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4596101&scancode=ES142969570
Light Manufacturing, they claim.
This one at 18-22 42 ST was disapproved
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanJobDocumentServlet?requestid=13&passjobnumber=420652029&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4596103&scancode=ES589030940
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanJobDocumentServlet?requestid=13&passjobnumber=420651306&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4015673&scancode=ES623679406
Doesn't this approval from Landmarks show just one lot subdivided??
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JB2ScheduleAServlet?requestid=8&passjobnumber=420652065&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4596101
Parking for seven cars on first floor and storage on the second floor. Schedule A for 18-24 42 Streeet.
This calls it a Manufacturing Building http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanJobDocumentServlet?requestid=9&passjobnumber=420652065&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4596101&scancode=ES658857007
Funny? That single little Zoning Diagram doesn't show all of this...
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanJobDocumentServlet?requestid=9&passjobnumber=420652065&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4596101&scancode=ES789658486
Trees? What are those? I think I might have seen a tree or two once in Brooklyn Heights or the Upper West Side.
crappy:
few things
1) residential uses are permitted as-of-right in M1-1D zones which i thought was what that area was
2) the plan was always for light manufacturing, which i just mis-remembered.
also, FYI for all you, if you want to look at the BIS docs for the subdivision... you have to look at the lots pre-subdivision. there's no SD approvals in BIS for these lots.
re: LPC:
LPC subdivision plans only show the subdivision on the landmarked lot for the mansion. the grounds werent landmarked so they didnt need approval for subdivision.
also its great to see outrage now but it was needed in august back when the writing was on the wall that it was going down EXACTLY LIKE THIS.
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2014/08/steinway-mansion-property-to-be-hemmed.html
-somethingstructural
The zoning is M1-1 and the application is for manufacturing, not housing.
Thanks for reminding us. This bears repeating:
Not so fast with the doom and gloom:
The Friends of Stienway Mansion is going nowhere. Indeed, their efforts has new life.
The Friends of Steinway Mansion did not make a real effort because during most of 2013 the fate of company, Steinway & Sons, was in limbo (solved) and the nebulous political environment in NYC during that year (settled).
The lack of support of the politicians was something factored into the campaign a long time ago. Politicians anywhere else would have jumped on board to help their community - but the politics of that part of our city resemble the Hermit Kingdom and has to be dealt with accordingly.
Even now, all they have to do is have just one politician make one phone call to Steinway and express an interest to save the place.
Yes, that is all it takes.
How about it Joe? Costa? Mike? Aravella?
Ready to stand up for improving the community's image, business prospects, property values, and most importantly, educational opportunities that would improve a quantum leap?
There is a guy out there, a son of Queens, who gave Central Park $100 million and is looking to leave a legacy. His company is retooling itself as going global. What a better place to do that in back in its roots, in Steinway, in Queens the home to the world?
The mansion is in that state in part due to the antics of the Halberians - daddy's voodoo crap linked to the Steinway family and the magical price that always seem to change to make it out of reach was typical of that clan. Part of the legend and lore of Astoria was to drive by that place at midnight back in the 70s and see all the Olds 98s and Caddys parked outside. Now we don't need to report on all that do we?
The fact that its in the hands of businessmen, might be in the right direction - these fellows only care about making money and for the right price they would sell the property in a heart beat.
All that is needed is for the community, the political leadership, and the arts scene in Queens to make some tough choices - get involved and improve the community (as well as make money, improve property values and make the area a byword for the arts) or let a few guys make a few bucks and suffer the consequence having every outrage that is about to reported linked to the borough and community's image.
Believe me, if this mansion gets destroyed it will take the borough and community and everyone responsible a long time to wash the taint off their hands.
Remember, its doesn't matter what you do, its how its reported to posterity and guess who does that writing?
Be smart and make money or be stupid get what you deserve.
The zoning is M1-1 and the application is for manufacturing, not housing.
---
this is community board 1, the community board from hell. they will get the variance. Those foundations look exactly like residential footprints.
The housing will come when they make the mansion impossible to use and, since its piled high with paper inside, will go up like a match.
only a matter of time before that happens.
what a sh*t hole the people in that community are - not a scrap of respect or pride.
It's Mike Halberian's fault. He could have put in a deed restriction. He wanted his cake and eat it too. Bye, bye to both Mike and his mansion.
transit, not so good, shopping very far away. trees gone. living on a hill near rikers...priceless.
Not so fast people.
Go after Steinway's PR people in Steinway Hall, Manhattan.
I would wager all Loria needs to do is name them a price and he will make out like a bandit.
Smart guy knows how far to push his luck. And he has got his ducks in a row.
agree, this area is a brownfield
this place would be a nightmare in housing - with the rats and flooding and stench at times its impossible - who ever bought this would lose big time. he did drilling all over the property. the water table is at street level. the smoke from the coffee factory, the varnish smell from Steinway as well being downwind from the three power plants.
The only people you could get to move in and pay off the construction would be shoehorning a dozen per apartment. You know how long that would last.
That is not the way you pay off mortgages.
Maybe he needs to fire up the basement antics like Mike and advertise the fun liberally using the name "Steinway." That would get Steinway's attention.
Still think this is just a show to scare Steinway into forking over a good price. I but if he called them he will get it just to get him out of the picture. The got like $300 million in the freakin' bank.
He would be smart to take it. You know what Mark Twain used to say: over reaching don't pay.
"Part of the legend and lore of Astoria was to drive by that place at midnight back in the 70s and see all the Olds 98s and Caddys parked outside. Now we don't need to report on all that do we?"
_______________________________________
Yes you do because it's news to me (and I'm sure others). I have no idea what you're talking about.
"Part of the legend and lore of Astoria was to drive by that place at midnight back in the 70s and see all the Olds 98s and Caddys parked outside. Now we don't need to report on all that do we?"
_______________________________________
Yes you do because it's news to me (and I'm sure others). I have no idea what you're talking about.
LOOK AT THE BASEMENT AND PUT THE DOTS TOGETHER, AND IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, TALK TO AN ADULT, OR BETTER, ANY OLD TIMER FROM THE NABE.
"LOOK AT THE BASEMENT AND PUT THE DOTS TOGETHER, AND IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, TALK TO AN ADULT, OR BETTER, ANY OLD TIMER FROM THE NABE."
_______________________________________
A swimming pool down there? A sado-masochistic torture chamber? There are no "dots" to put together. What are you talking about? Please stop being so CRYPTIC and just tell us. Please. Crapper, you know what's being inferred here?
Who cares?
You got that fire in your belly you should be concerned about the mansion and this travesty that is shaming Astoria. We all used to love going to the mansion and its parties. Astorians felt like a king or queen in there. Now everyone is disgusted. This is a blot on our community. We deserve better.
Which one of our elected officials have the backbone to fight for us? Eh? Just once?
"Who cares?"
__________________________________
Some do. It adds cachet to the edifice.
I knew Mike and he swore the landmark covered that house and property and his will was drawn up that way.
I love if someone could find out the law firm that prepared it. Might have some surprises.
The designation report just lists the lot the house sits on. Perhaps he shouldnt have subdivided his property.
http://www.neighborhoodpreservationcenter.org/db/bb_files/STEINWAY-HOUSE.pdf
He did not subdivide the property. That was done back in the 1920s when Steinway sold it.
His father bought the lots around the mansion with the explicit intention of it not be subdivided.
You will see that documentary that the historical society did where he explicit talks about the surrounding property being used with the mansion.
Someone advised him - that he trusted - not to worry that it all was protected the designation. That is why its important to find out who helped him prepare his will. If it came out of a certain local law firm there will be hell to pay.
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=4&houseno=18-38&street=42%20street&requestid=0&s=A03C41B885B461E4F46BD08866A7430E
This refers to a reapportionment of Lots 36, 39, 60, 64, 66 and 67 in July 2014.
This is the procedure
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/code_notes_subdivision.pdf
Applications for buildings have been filed on Lots 39, 60 and 64 .... all disapproved thus far.
No record at DOB for Lots 66 or 36 but Lot 67 was the demolition of the one-story house that existed on that lot.
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=4&houseno=18-38&street=42%20street&requestid=0&s=A03C41B885B461E4F46BD08866A7430E
This refers to a reapportionment of Lots 36, 39, 60, 64, 66 and 67 in July 2014.
This is the procedure
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/code_notes_subdivision.pdf
Check ACRIS /DOF for Block 802 Lot 67 .... do you see a merger of lots?
https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/DocumentImageView?doc_id=2014111300570001
There certainly is no mention of additional lots.
https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/DocumentImageView?doc_id=2014051201418002
Has anyone checked for covenants?
https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/DocumentImageView?doc_id=FT_4650005396565
1996 There is a Lot 31, too, at 18-33 41 Street.
Someone... study the Landmarks Approval documents!!
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanJobDocumentServlet?requestid=6&passjobnumber=420651306&passdocnumber=01&allbin=4015673&scancode=ES623679406
One Zoning Lot Three Tax Lots ...Lot 31 Tax lots 31, 36, 66
To the "Lot Number" Poster . . . er, Bob:
Why don't you take all this info to a lawyer? And start a lawsuit. It's confounding the general reader.
I don't think the background information does much to stop what's happening here.
You have to look at the pre-subdivision BBL's to see the zoning documents. I believe you can pull historic maps from finance's website but it's been a while and I'm short for time to contribute to the cause.
Also I can confirm from when I looked at the landmarking designation back in August and all this was coming out -- that only the tax lot with the mansion on it was landmarked. That's why you will find a perf set for that lot only. It's the one structure only on that one lot. Rest can be torn to shreds.
-somethingstructural
Lawyers are already involved, Costa, Gianaris, and of course, Vallone, and look look at how they mucked things up.
Have a funny feeling that a lot more than one person is posting here.
Alex.
I think we are getting the goat of the boys hiding behind their Tacos Mexicanos sign, gentlemen.
I agree with something structural, after examining maps going back to the 1920s the lots were divided and the designation only covers the building and its lot.
The Friends knew that and told us that they begged Vallone and Costa to head this off. They could and did not. It seems that they are little more than agents for the developers at the expense of the benefit to their community. They still could do something but refuse to do so.
Sad. Pathetic. Astoria deserves better.
This was not what Michael wanted but towards the end of his life he was so sick and out of it God knows what he was thinking when he signed his will.
But any political elite that finds money for ($500,000 dog run?), a nondiscipt park with a few dozen votes ($3,000,000) and a 'concert venue' that seats 300 next to a housing project's swimming pool ($5,000,000 and counting) can certainly find the money to buy these guys out to make that first step to make the area a major tourist destination and education center.
Short on cash, boys? One call over to Steinway Hall in Manhattan could help and get the machinery started.
So Katz? So Finkelpearl? So Bornstein? Any adults out there?
Or is it business as usual, gorging on the public trough and leaving it in the litter box?
Mentioned this at a preservation event in Manhattan a few weeks back. People were celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the Landmarks Law.
The other four boroughs were well represented - Jack was there standing in a corner as usual.
Having a nice conversation until I mentioned this mess and when I used the words 'Astoria' and Queens' their eyes rolled back in their head and they scowled.
Short conversation. Nice rep you have.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/zone/zoning_handbook/m1.pdf
Keep in mind that this is what is allowed on a SINGLE ZONING LOT (i.e. three tax lots that make up a single zoning lot ... FAR is just 1.0) and that parking is required for each. There is also a 20' minimum required yard on each Zoning Lot.
ie. Zoning Lot 31 is tax lots 31, 36 and 66, but ONE ZONING LOT.
See ... this is where it gets dicey...
Subdivision applications which create a Zoning Lot ..WHY??
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByLocationServlet?requestid=1&allbin=4015673&allstrt=%20%2041%20STREET&allnumbhous=18-33
Now look at the Library of Tax Maps
http://gis.nyc.gov/taxmap/library.htm?search={%22declaredClass%22:%22Sea%22,%22parameters%22:{%22searchType%22:%22map%22,%22inBorough%22:%224%22,%22inBlock%22:%2200802%22,%22inLot%22:%220031%22}}
for those that want to do their own research... apologies for any re-links.
1. here is the 2008-2014 tax map that was in effect at the time of the sale. note the lot #'s.
http://on.nyc.gov/1RBoZV0
2. you can use this acris link to search by name and see all the lots that were owned by halberian... 31 (mansion), 36, 39, 60, 64, 66, and 67.
http://on.nyc.gov/1K5btHf
3. at the time of conveyance, the zoning description for the mansion makes mention of "tentative" lots 36 and 66, and there's a handy diagram about how they're breaking it up... showing what's in the CURRENT tax map. FYI, I'm not a lawyer but if there's a violation of the will, it's probably here, because the document is addendum to the conveyance of the deed directly from halberian's estate. Philip Loria and Salvatore Lucchese are the named LLC partners.
http://on.nyc.gov/1G4t8fC
4. acris shows what amounts to a simultaneous conveyance of lots 36, 39, 60, 64, 66, and 67 to SPMM 1 and SPMM 2. I assume the LLC structure is the same as above. search by any of those lots, you'll see it.
5. i misspoke before. the subdivision zoning doc's have been memory-holed by BIS. they don't show up under those lots and they don't show up in a list of subdivisions done by calliendo, nor are they listed in all CB1 subdivisions performed between 2013 and 2015. case in point, do a search for lot 66 and it will come up with? nothing... hm.
6. i suspect that the reason that there's 3 tax lots composing of a single zoning lot is related to some zoning hocus-pocus, like tax lot 36 can claim its rear yard starts at the edge of tax lot 66 and then the adjacent lots (65/67) can claim a shallow lot exception. i don't know that. there could have been some brokering with LPC about the minimum clearance from the mansion, as well.
-somethingstructural
Thank you, "-something structural"
We need more people to take an interest and to fight this. I suspect something is very wrong with this.
Has anyone written to Landmarks to suggest that?
Remember...the DOB can NOT be trusted to get it right! Get an attorney and start digging into the files!
Thank you, "-something structural"
We need more people to take an interest and to fight this. I suspect something is very wrong with this.
Has anyone written to Landmarks to suggest that?
Remember...the DOB can NOT be trusted to get it right! Get an attorney and start digging into the files!
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