From The Real Deal:A proposal to rezone a 130-block swath of Queens' Sunnyside and Woodside neighborhoods -- what would be the first rezoning of the area since 1974 -- has entered its public review period, City Planning Commissioner Amanda Burden announced today. The proposed zoning changes would target Queens Boulevard's main corridor for "moderate new development" by setting height limits on other, mostly-residential blocks and would provide incentives for affordable housing through the city's Inclusionary Housing Program. In Sunnyside, the rezoning would allow for small sidewalk cafes on Queens Boulevard in order to liven up the neighborhood.
Oh boy.
Yes, the aroma of Queens Blvd bus exhaust mixed with the rumbling of the 7 train create the perfect ambiance for outdoor dining. That Amanda Burden is one innovative thinker. Meanwhile the NY Observer took a slant that downzoning is bad. What a surprise.
Photo from the Daily News
39 comments:
"Yes, the aroma of Queens Blvd bus exhaust mixed with the rumbling of the 7 train create the perfect ambiance for outdoor dining."
QBL is not that bad for outdoor dining. The buses are mostly clean now and the Seven is in a viaduct that mostly eliminates street-level noise. After 46th St is is gone anyway.
Here in Manhattan people will pay to sit right out on crowded sidewalks with traffic, bums, and (at the end of the day) piles of garbage.
Restaurants pay thousands of dollars a year (not counting architect and lawyer fees to get started) for permission to use the sidewalks. They wouldn't bother if there was no market.
Wide Queens BLVD is heaven by comparison....now, if you want to talk about Roosevelt.....
How about car and truck exhaust? The point is, Queens is not Manhattan no matter how hard City Planning tries to make it so. All this will do is make rent more expensive for businesses. Kiss all your favorite places goodbye.
Dine al fresco, here on the "Boulevard of Death".
Q-C, Your point about exhaust is valid but nonetheless people do sit out on sidewalk cafes. There is a diner on Astoria blvd that has outdoor seating that is what, 25-30 ft from the a -busy- roadway with cars and trucks roaring all day and night.
There are cafes with outdoor seating in Astoria, one right on Ditmars and 31st -under- the N&Q el.
As for Sunnyside, I have had business dealings there for 17 years. With few exceptions the area has actually gone downscale in that time. And it didn't start from a high point to begin with.
What has been the best news in that area?..Pete's Diner?...And the latest construction?...a self-storage box building on 39th.
As I see it, there is little danger of an over building boom there though it should be monitored.
Until the recent recession knocked down rents in Manhattan I did see an increase of young, mostly white and Asian people -Rent Refugees from across the East River.
That is a world better than what was happening just ten years ago and it should be encouraged. You do-so by having the kinds of housing, food and shopping that will keep them from hopping the 7 everytime they think of going out...and moving back to Manhattan at their first chance.
That's funny, I would have thought that keeping the people who grew up in the area happy and willing to stay and invest in their communities would have been the priority. Not attracting transplants who can't afford Manhattan and will probably move back to Osh Kosh as soon as they are done meeting and mating in the big city.
Silly me.
"Anonymous said...
That's funny, I would have thought that keeping the people who grew up in the area happy.."
Well, if you even live in that area, you haven't been paying attention these past 15 or-so years.
The Billy 'n Betty types were almost gone when I got involved there in 1994.
By the late 1990s the area was turning Hispanic and had a growing population of Muslim Africans after Astoria began to price them out.
If you consider that an improvement..well then this is for you.
Sunnyside is one of those neighborhoods that can tip either way. It has proximity to Manhattan (where most of it's residents work) but mostly older walkup housing and little nightlife.
In recent years the area began to attract young middle-class people even as the quality of shops has, with few exceptions, continued to decline.
"The Billy 'n Betty types were almost gone when I got involved there in 1994."
And no one has grown up there since 1994? How about the children of immigrants?
It's the second generation that makes or breaks a neighborhood, whether it be white, black, hispanic, asian. If they're leaving, that's bad news.
Having them be replaced with temporary transplants is stupid. That means you have to try to craft a trendy neighborhood where there wasn't one, which is hard to sustain. Ask Hunters Point.
A safe, clean neighborhood is what the city should aim for, not one with more bars and an Apple store.
Exactly, people who want to settle down move out to safer, cleaner neighborhoods. Not to one with a bunch of sidewalk cafes.
Yeah, bus engines don't use motor oil and they aren't in bad repair. The first anonymous must be from Manhattan, you guys get NEW buses.
Amanda the people's Burden -- the worst city planner ever. She and Bloomberg and their pals belong in jail. Thanks to the Queens' Crap commentor who coined the phrase "The People's Burden" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgOdYAosFAw
Q-C That type of neighborhood had complicated dynamics and can tip either way.
Ten years ago I lent a Mex friend the down payment for a two fam near what was then Stevens TV. I had to give him another 27K to make it decent and safe (horrible wiring, roof leaks and clogged sewer line).
He likes the area and his kids have turned out very well (one in college, the other, Brooklyn Tech).
He has repeatedly expressed concern for what was an influx of Dominicans and Puerto Ricans, then the Africans.
Some of this is frankly, typical Central American biases. But the problem is not so much the row houses where he lives but the local apartments.
When the young whites/Asians started showing interest around the time MOMA opened it's temp space he and others I have spoken to were really hoping that trend would continue.
Young people in those sorts of areas are sooner or later going to decide whether to put down roots and maybe buy something, or move on.
That is where future stability begins in an area like that.
Sure a certain number will just pass through, that happens in every area, my block in Manhattan has moving vans -every- month, but if the neighborhood is attractive you will have a continuing stream of people who won't wreck the area and a certain number will decide to stay.
If the housing stock and area stores are not appealing initially -they'll look elsewhere.
Oh but that won't affect the historic landmark district (LOL)!
Just when they spent all that money spiffing up the Sunnyside arch!
I guess if anyone wants lower density living these days, they'll have to move to the northeastern portion of Queens.
Nightlife is a grossly over rated requiem for a neighborhood, especially a residential neighborhood in such close proximity to Manhattan.
"Nightlife" apparently didn't do much for the quality of life (or lack of) in Astoria.
Serious question: are you opposed to just the idea of upzoning, or simply some of the negative consequences caused when it's done in a ham-handed way?
I understand (and to a certain extent agree) with the instinct to preserve neighborhood character. But, when over applied preservation causes housing costs to skyrocket in those preserved areas.
Neighborhoods need to be able to react to changing demand, and it's better in the long run to allow those areas to develop rather than stay the same.
It's true that a significant amount of new construction looks atrocious, maybe some corridors make more sense for development than other, and maybe the city is completely wrong in the upzoning choices it makes (although IMO Sunnyside is simply too close to Manhattan to be restricted to its current low rise character). These re failures of implementation however, and don't reflect the actual merits of upzoning.
There's a difference between finding problems with those (and complaining about/trying to fix them) and being philosophically opposed to upzoning. Have you read the glaeser piece the Observer links to? It actually includes a pretty interesting explanation about how dissipating the demand for new development actually makes it easier to preserve architecturally significant areas.
I find it interesting that every community that has been upzoned in the name of increasing housing has become more, not less expensive. So much so that the people who live there have to move out.
I also find it disturbing that all this upzoning is done without planning schools, hospitals, transit, sewer capacity, etc. What happens when you put 20lbs of sausage in a 5lb bag?
One thing that would put diners further away from noise and exhaust would be a protected bike lane. Just sayin'! :)
As for the 7 train, at least it's on the nice concrete arches in Sunnyside. I live under the screechy bend of the N and Q trains, next to the clackering 7 train, and above the rumbling E,R,and F trains. And I primarily bike! Of course we all get stuck with astonishing levels of exhaust here, increased because the Queensboro Bridge is free.
But back to Sunnyside. Dining on the side streets might be fine, and many bars and restaurants already have open full frontal windows. Skillman is more charming, but even on Queens Blvd I suppose there's money to be made al not-so-fresco.
Screeching tires, honking horns, exhaust, soot, people walking by smoking, talking on cell phones, walking their dogs and the occasional jackhammer. Ah, paradise! I'll take a seat closest to the curb, please!
I totally agree about the lack of infrastructure expansion, and this is something that needs to change. The fact that the two subway expansions being most seriously considered/implemented are the second avenue subway and an expansion of the 7 train INTO MANHATTAN is a serious oversight by our city's government and has always gotten to me.
Your observation is also correct, but think about the mechanisms that are causing this.
Take two communities facing the exact same increase in demand: Sunnyside and Putnam county. Developers in Putnam county are able to sprawl out and perfectly match the demand of housing. As a result, prices don't change. Even if Sunnyside had no zoning limits it would never be able to meet demand in this way, so prices will go up in any situation. If upzoning is not enacted, the lower supply of housing will cause those prices to go up even higher.
Now, look at a low rise neighborhood in Queens not facing an increase in demand. The lack of increasing demand means less pressure to increase development so it will be more likely to retain its low-rise nature, and steadier prices .
So, you're right that there's a correlation between development and higher rents in an urban area, but that doesn't necessarily mean development is CAUSING those higher rents. In this case, increased demand is causing both the thirst for development and higher rents. I don't believe zoning should be abolished all together, but this trade off needs to be recognized and accounted for.
I love the new pawn shop in Sunnyside, plus all the vacant storefronts along Queens Boulevard, what could be better?!!??!?!
A great architectural visit in the post's photo:
A superbodega on the left, a nicotine vendor on the right, and the Arch of Blightus in the middle.
For George - "Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
"Hieroglyphicshieroglyphicshieroglyphic
shieroglyphicshieroglyphicshiero"
>>>Here in Manhattan people will pay to sit right out on crowded sidewalks with traffic, bums, and (at the end of the day) piles of garbage.
Because they're idiots. I would never sit outside to eat with the traffic, bums, garbage, and car and truck exhaust. Give me my indoor air conditioning if I'm eating out in the summer.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Crapper did you forget to put in the mix all the tenants intentionally harassed out of the neighborhood-Sunnyside & Woodside - by the professional slumlords? because everyone else has forgotten about the tenant's victories helped by Woodside on the Move. that organization is now a mere front now cooking along as shills for the slumlords. There seems to be no lack of those in Woodside. are you aware of the Phipps Gardens Tenant's Association? not for nothing,as we say, but what's up with all the Indians in Phipps Gardens? did they run out of native born New Yorkers who need decent places to live?
It's curious that Catholic Charities has a Migration Law Project-translation- eviction prevention for illegal aliens. but not for locals New Yorkers. the elected officials turn their backs on tenants who go to them for help. Queens County Housing Court is the most corrupt court in the State of NY. Queens County Housing Court judges may very well own a large piece of the Sunnyside-Woodside pie.
was told a couple of years ago that Woodside is going to be THE place to live.
guess that's why the slumords want to harass out locals who know their law.
when a tenant moves out of a rent stabilized apartment the rent goes nowhere but up. these gol darn fools flocking in from the midwest will leave when they graduate. forcing up the rent even further and don't know that the landlord has to fix locks, exterminate, repair leaks and keep the hallways clean.
By the late 1990s the area was turning Hispanic and had a growing population of Muslim Africans after Astoria began to price them out.
---
Bullshit. The Muslims are now moving INTO Astoria after it was gutted by the Greeks/Italians.
http://www.qgazette.com/news/2010-12-22/Features/Dutch_Kills_Civic_Association_Swears
_In_New_Office.html
Jimmy Van Bamer is a warm supporter of people that support the controversial development that many claim has destroyed the quality of life in Dutch Kills.
Look out Sunnyside!
Translation = Cut-rate labor barracks for all future voters currently being dumbed up in the NYC school system.
Problem is with exception of the Asian kids not one of them will be willing or smart or enough have a job.
The Mayor is setting up Queens to serve as a slave labor camp to serve is rich tower people in Manhattan.
This wile also getting paid big money for all these people from the federal government and tax $$ from private home owners.
This is exactly what the Ca. pols did in in thos now bankrupt cesspools called East and S Los Angeles
"QBL is not that bad for outdoor dining. The buses are mostly clean now and the Seven is in a viaduct that mostly eliminates street-level noise. After 46th St is is gone anyway." Are you nuts Have you been there lately?
How did I KNOW Erik would find a way to push a bike lane?
"One thing that would put diners further away from noise and exhaust would be a protected bike lane. Just sayin'! :)"
"Joe" said "The Mayor is setting up Queens to serve as a slave labor camp to serve is rich tower people in Manhattan."
That is what the outer boroughs and suburbs have always been.
It is that way all over the world. A core district surrounded by bedroom communities with little humping boxes for the worker bees.
If you want to rail about the influx of immigrants, don't leave out the real underlying cause -the desire of the Reactionary Right to bust up labor unions with a flood of cheap (and subservient) workers.
Typical of thee conservatives, they only saw the shot-term gain, never counted on those lowly workers becoming citizens and VOTING. TFB-GOP
Anonymous said..."Bullshit. The Muslims are now moving INTO Astoria after it was gutted by the Greeks/Italians."
Geez, another Martian.
The Hookah bars started opening on Steinway in 1992 within a year there were storefront Mosques on 31st.
That former Presbyterian-Korean church on Ditmars became a mosque in the late 1990s and many of the one and two family houses in Astoria were being sold to arabs and paki's by 1993-4.
I don't know where you've been all this time.
So what he said was right, the Muslims came after the Greeks and Italians.
"If you want to rail about the influx of immigrants, don't leave out the real underlying cause -the desire of the Reactionary Right to bust up labor unions with a flood of cheap (and subservient) workers."
Actually, JFK liberalized trade in the 1960s and that was what started the downward spiral of unions. Not that I blame him. It was inevitable. The fact of the matter is that no one is going to be willing to pay more for something simply because it's "union made". That goes for everything from clothing to housing. People making $30/hr for a $10/hr job? Unsustainable.
"Actually, JFK liberalized trade in the 1960s and that was what started the downward spiral of unions."
I'll let this chart speak for itself"
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/TUWbVZ16InI/AAAAAAAAO4I/VxVlHEMn4Iw/s1600/union.jpg
While it is true that as Europe and Asia recovered from WW2 and their industrial output.
However it was the purposeful crafting of tax policies that encouraged companies to offshore without incurring penalties for the unemployment this caused.
Below the hood: It is also a fact the biggest element of core inflation measurement is labor cost. So, if labor costs are kept low interest rates are too and this leads to asset appreciation and 'bubbles" -like the one we just lived through.
A few got very rich is this recent housing frenzy..the rest of us left to clean up the shithouse.
Your kids will have a much diminished future because of the machinations of the few (and those two failed wars)...but hey, we'll have Donald trump and Palin to admire.
Back to your ballgames and sitcoms.
Yes, tax policies. The steepest decline according to your graph happened under Jimmy Carter. Dems had the Clinton years and did nothing. Now they have Obama and they will do nothing. Dems help the rich just as much as Republicans do. It's in all politicians' best interests to do so.
Great NY Observer article.
The fact of the matter is that no one is going to be willing to pay more for something simply because it's "union made". That goes for everything from clothing to housing. People making $30/hr for a $10/hr job? Unsustainable.
- I would and everyone I can possibly think of would too. I guess we were born here. Not transplanted here to rape New York like you.
Rape New York? I wouldn't pay more no matter where I lived. It's just stupid. And I was born here.
Bring on Walmart.
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