Thursday, September 6, 2007

Your tax dollars at work

Engineers trying to cut costs at the World Trade Center transit hub won't clip the wings of its spectacular roof, the Port Authority said yesterday.

COSTLY WTC STATION WILL STILL WING IT

Originally projected at $2.2 billion, PA officials said earlier this year that costs for the transit hub had risen between $500 million and $1 billion over the first estimate, leading to an overhaul of the plans.

Nothing in this city ever comes in below costs. It's amazing how they are always off by so much.

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

looks like a skeleton or bunch of bones which is a really sick and inappropriate thing to erect at ground zero. What the heck was the archictect who designed it thinking?

Anonymous said...

Santiago Calatrava, one of the world's foremost and highly regarded architects, designed this structure. He is considered one of the elite designers in the world and is well known for groundbreaking modernist architectural design in structural engineering. His designs often incorporate shapes based upon the human body and the natural world. He meant for this WTC transportation hub design to resemble a bird being released from a child's hand. Herbert Muschamp and other well-known architecture critics have lauded this design. Also, to be fair, the picture here differs somewhat from Calatrava's original design, which I believe had a grander scale.

Anonymous said...

If it's the above ground design that is that expensive, it shouldn't be built with tax dollars.

Anonymous said...

After studing Frank Lloyd Wright, one thing sticks out: build it simple and it will last.

Get cute, and get leaks and a hefty repair bill somewhere in the not too distant future.

This is what happens when party hacks choose civic architure. Of course, corportate types that are masters at getting rich through bookkeeping ballet don't have much better taste in the building arts, either.

Anonymous said...

Is crapper running out of things in Queens to complain about and now going into the other boroughs?

Queens Crapper said...

The Crapper has been in every borough. I suppose you are a recent visitor. Right before I went on Curbed, I did Bronx day. If it's out-of-character, I'll post it. And FYI: If you live in Queens, more of your tax dollars go toward making Manhattan pretty than they do for basic services in Queens.

Anonymous said...

This is the type of design that scares the crap out of little kids.

Anonymous said...

The large bulk of the money for this project is coming from federal funds, not city taxes.
As far as the city tax base, let's not throw around baseless comments. A major source of NYC tax revenue comes from corporate taxes on the major Wall Street companies and personal income taxes on the high salaries and bonuses they pay out. The tax revenue coming from Wall Street and the higher income Manhattan residents is much greater than the amount of taxes generated by Queens residents and businesses. Those Manhattan-generated taxes are used for police, fire department, sanitation and other services provided in Queens. You are quite mistaken if you think Queens would be better off as its own municipality relying on its own tax base to pay for its own public services.

Anonymous said...

And the extra billion is coming from where exactly?

Fred said...

That's great, Einstein, but the Crapper wrote about QUEENS taxpayers' money going toward Manhattan, not the other way around. When I see how much taxes Queens pays and compare it to the other boroughs, and then look at where money is being spent as far as landmarks, parks, etc, I don't have to be a CPA to figure out that we are getting back less than what we put in.

Anonymous said...

"The large bulk of the money for this project is coming from federal funds, not city taxes."

Last time I checked, Queens residents paid federal income tax.

Anonymous said...

SO how much of OUR federal tax money gets spent in Queens for infrastructure improvements? HEY...STOP LAUGHING!

Anonymous said...

Let me try to make this more simple so people can understand. New York City provides general city services throughout the five boroughs, such as the services provided by the NYPD, FDNY, the Sanitation Department, etc. These services are paid for by the taxes paid from all five boroughs of New York City. Since more of the tax revenues for the city services that are not borough-specific comes from Manhattan, Queens benefits. I do not know exactly to what you are referring when you say "QUEENS taxpayers' money going towards Manhattan"? Tax revenue gets accounted for and bucketed in different ways, but I am not familiar with specifically earmarking tax revenue from one location to spend in a different location. If you have some examples or data on this, maybe you can share it when you try to make your point, but my guess is you are just pulling ideas out of thin air.

Philip said...

Let me make this more simple so this anonymous moron understands.

Queens: population 2.2 million
Manhattan: population 1.6 million

Which taxpayers on the whole pay more and get less in return? Queens taxpayers. Is there anyplace in Manhattan that looks like Flushing Meadows? Why does Queens tax money go toward preserving Manhattan while Queens gets the short end of the stick?

Anonymous said...

We're not talking about businesses, we're talking about residents. You know, the average joe taxpayer.

Anonymous said...

"These services are paid for by the taxes paid from all five boroughs of New York City."

Right...but why are they so much better in Manhattan than in the other boroughs?

Anonymous said...

Here's your answer...

Manhattan:

White persons, 2005 66.5%

Queens:

White persons, 2005 55.1%

More yuppies, better services.

Anonymous said...

"SO how much of OUR federal tax money gets spent in Queens for infrastructure improvements? HEY...STOP LAUGHING!"

Very little. The money is for tweeding projects. The democrats need a number of safe seats - lets face it, the demographics in this country is against them so a place like Queens is worth it not for the people (immigrant, olders, apathetic, however you want to measure not good not good) but for the seat that will vote the right way.

Afterall, where but NY can a Bobby Kennedy, or a Hillary Clinton run?

Anonymous said...

just about a 1/4 of my salary is taken out for taxes which is painful no matter where the money eventually ends up going.

Anonymous said...

How about this: The USTA pays millions in taxes each year for the privilege of taking over a good portion of a public park. This money goes into the general fund...and is spent in Central Park. The NYS Pavilion and the rest of the park still looks like a shithole, and the parks department covers up some of the filth with astroturf that is probably carcinogenic.

Anonymous said...

1/4 of your salary is taken? About 1/3 of mine is taken when all is done. And I'd like to see it reinvested in my neighborhood. But somehow the money doesn't seem to get here, or if it does, it's for some stupid project that costs too much.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure how much more simple I can make this, but I'll try. Manhattan "taxpayers" pay more total taxes than Queens "taxpayers." By far. It's not even close. You can't just disregard businesses. The taxes from those businesses are paying for the city services, and those businesses rightly should receive services as well.
What data do you have to show that Queens gets "less in return"? Again, you are just pulling things out of thin air.
You brought up Flushing Meadows. Well, the city has spent and will spend millions and millions of dollars on the building of a new ice rink and swimming pool, expansion of the Hall of Science, expansion of the Queens Theater, renovation of the Queens Museum of Art, renovation of the Queens Botanical Garden, construction of a recreation center and expansion of the Queens Zoo, among other projects in the park. That seems to me like spending taxpayer money in Queens.
You should try to look up some facts before giving opinions.

Anonymous said...

Actually, who the hell cares what the entrance to the subway looks like? Don't you care more about whether or not the trains are running? This is clearly for tourists, not the people who live here.

Anonymous said...

I would rather the PA and city invest that money in better service.

Anonymous said...

***What data do you have to show that Queens gets "less in return"?***

10:1 ratio of landmarks Manhattan to Queens, just to start. How about crumbling subway stations, while Manhattan stations are nice and shiny, how about sewers which are not cleaned causing flooding conditions, taking their time with street plowing in the winter, and yes, we are getting new museums and the like in FMCP park, while the park itself still looks like a dump. See Crappy's posts from last winter and Forgotten-NY's. How much MORE money was spent in Manhattan parks? Why does Central Park have its own police precinct and FMCP, which is larger, shared with Corona's precinct which is stretched thin as it is?

Anonymous said...

Manhattan businesses are using Queens parks and care about landmarking here? Wow.

Anonymous said...

The Metropolitan Museum of Art hasn't been allowed to expand into Central Park by one inch because of strong community opposition.

Queens residents should voice equal opposition towards the expansion of the Hall of Science, Theatre in the Park, and Queens Museum which will reduce FMCP's dwindling green space even more.

The admission fees that these FMCP commercial enterprises charge are rather high too. The Hall of Science charges upwards of $15. After they expand they'll probably charge $20.

Anonymous said...

The Metropolitan Museum of Art is twenty times the size of its original building, enlarged by expansions that occurred throughout the 20th century into the 1970s. The expansions to the FMCP institutions and the new pool/ice rink facility are great additions that benefit Queens residents. The Theatre is next to the Pavilion. The expansion is not taking up any fields or green space, and it will add a cafe area to a portion of the park that does not have one. I was at the Hall of Science recently and the new wing is terrific. The kids love it and they learn from it.

Julie said...

I have been to many community board meetings, civic meetings and council meetings. Never have I once heard the people of Queens stand up and say they want an ice skating rink or the Theater in the Park. They have said they want better sewers, subways that run on time, cleaner streets, etc. They have also said they wanted the NYS Pavilion cleaned up and restored. With all the money the city has spent on the other "improvements" to FMCP that no one asked for, they could have fixed the pavilion and expanded the theater or museum into it.

Anonymous said...

Why the hell did they build that theater under a structure that's falling down anyway?

Anonymous said...

1. Billions should not be spent on any f'ing train station by the city, state or fed, while ground zero rescure workers' health deteriorates without medical coverage. Where the F are people's priorities?

2. This thing looks like a skeleton and I would find it creepy and inappropriate to have such a structure at ground zero.

Anonymous said...

It's true that the expansion of Theatre and Museum won't take up any additional park space, per say, but the extra parking lots that will inevitably have to be built to accomodate the increased crowds will.

Perhaps the land that the Pavilion sits on will be used as a parking lot when structure falls down from neglect.

Anonymous said...

Check the Curbed posts on the WTC buildings. There are some pictures of this structure in context of the whole area. The transit hub will not be scaled back like in the picture here. It really looks amazing.

Anonymous said...

Much more simple answer to it all:

The TOURIST CORRIDOR
gets the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

while the "outer boroughs" get THE SHAFT !

Anonymous said...

Manhattan is where all the costly
lipstick and makeup is applied
so that "The Lady" can look "appealing"
to her visitors.

Meanwhile FEMA comes to Queens
because her woefully inadequate sewer system
couldn't handle the recent flooding.

How much federal money
and resources can we expect out here.....
more than the lion's share
that Manhattan usually receives?

I doubt it !

I certainly hope it's more than New Orleans got !

Anonymous said...

It looks like the remains of that great fish
(Ernest Hemingway's "Old Man and The Sea")
after the sharks got finished with it !

Anonymous said...

great book, and the Old Man in it was a NY Yankee fan, too, if I recall.

Anonymous said...

That's right.....
he was listening to the great Di Maggio play
on his portable radio while fishing.

Anonymous said...

It looks like a hair clip

Anonymous said...

Yeah....but we're the ones getting clipped on this one.

Anonymous said...

This site is hallowed ground.
There are those who perished here.....
and not even their fragmentary remains
have been found.

It's time that some respect is shown
by not having this place turn into an amusement park attraction for gawking tourists .

A simple dignified entrance is far more suitable.....
not one that's glitzy and flamboyant.