Monday, March 16, 2009

Willets Point Headscratcher series, part 6

With building heights capped because of airplanes taking off and horrendous noise from LaGuardia making life unbearable, who is going to want to build at Willets Point and who the hell will want to live there? Even the brokers have been wondering about this.

John Maltz, president of real estate brokerage Greiner-Maltz, said the flight path issue could turn residential developers and potential residents away. "[Willets Point] is on an extremely noisy flight path to the point where the ground vibrates," he said. "There is a reason why it is scrap yards," he added.

And that was before the market bottomed out...

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

howard beach? rockaway?

Alan said...

It's not just the noise but the residue that falls from these aircraft as well. There are many pollutions to be concerned about at Willets Point. The proposed development concept is ludicrous.

I agree that the area needs a major cleanup but I am in the camp that feels that the city should provide the services that the existing businesses' taxes already paid for and let the area flourish on its own. The auto shops provide a valuable service to those who are trying to make cars last longer in the downturning economy.

Also, the Flushing #7 subway line is overcrowded already and the proposed complex will not just add to the ridership on an already overused mode of transportation, the vehicular traffic for the area will be overwhelming.

Anonymous said...

Bad analogy, #1. No luxury condos in Howard Beach or Rockaway. Let's remember this is where Robert Moses dumped the po' folk after the airport was built and Hamilton Beach is not exactly the choice location of the rich and famous. If we are going to spend billions of dollars creating "NYC's next great neighborhood" and take people's property to do so, we should at least be doing it in a location that does not sit under the takeoff from LaGuardia.

Taxpayer said...

It took till now for these wizards to notice the airport and the planes?

Will they get a refund on all those kickbacks?

Anonymous said...

good point Anon number one

Crapper doesnt mention the flight path of JFK runs over a very nice, clean, family community in southern queens.

Doesnt seem to bother anyone there. In fact, when you ask people who live there about the airplanes they say "what airplanes".

They are so conditioned to hearing the noise they block it out. Like living near train tracks.

Anonymous said...

No luxury condos in Howard Beach

are you kidding?

those neighborhoods happen to be among the cleanest, nicest communities in all of Queens.
I have relatives that live in Howard Beach to this day and would NEVER Leave. The Italian American community has thrived in Howard Beach. Who is to say some other group could not thrive in Willets Point?

Anonymous said...

"Doesnt seem to bother anyone there."

Is that why millions of dollars in studies have been undertaken to see noise can be reduced and the flight paths changed at the request of the people who live there, in Broad Channel and in the Rockaways?

Anonymous said...

Rockaway sounded real happy about the noise back in 2002.

Anonymous said...

Are you kidding?

TDC will be building for the Chinese market. Muss already is.

This will be living in the lap of luxury compared to what they're used to back home.

Dump those immigrants in a polluted, noisy swamp and take your money to the bank....eh Wellington?

Anonymous said...

Newsday reports that the Queens neighborhood of West Hamilton Beach in New York City is a veritable paradise to those who live there, except for a major drawback: its proximity to JFK Airport. The neighborhood is considered part of Howard Beach, and residents have been able to retain their independence and anonymity, the article says. But the nearby airport is considered by many of the residents to be an environmental and safety hazard, subjecting them to unhealthy levels of noise, air, and water pollution.

According to the article, West Hamilton Beach is home to 800 or 1,000 people, and is fairly isolated from the bustle of big city life. The community is located in the confines of Jamaica Bay, and is connected to Howard Beach by two bridges, one a footbridge. There is one stop sign, one public pay phone, and one grocery in the neighborhood. Small homes sit on narrow streets that dead-end into canals.

But according to John Fazio, a lifetime resident of the community, the airport has grown to be the area's one problem. He said, "The only fly in the ointment is that Kennedy Airport grew to be a monster. One day the SST Concorde came so low it knocked a branch off my tree." Other times, Fazio said, he has seen planes fly so low they blow boats out of their slips while creating wakes in Jamaica Bay. Al Stabile, a City Councilor (R-Ozone Park), said he receives many noise complaints from residents. Stabile said, "I would like to have a hearing on the FAA Federal Aviation Administration and their responsibility to the communities around the airports. I'm a city councilman and cannot change things that the federal government oversees." Fazio also believes who gets the jet noise is a matter of politics. He said, "At the other end of this airport is Woodmere, where there's a lot of money and politics. So if somebody is going to get the noise and the unburnt fuel, who do you think is going to get it?"

The article explains that according to Jim Peters, an FAA spokesperson in New York, "Sometimes people's expectation of what to expect when they live near an airport might not meet their expectations when they begin to experience airport operations.... Our first consideration is the safe movement of planes. We work with airport operations such as the Port Authority as well as the communities and the users -- the airlines -- and we try to make adjustments when it's operationally permissible to alternate runways."

Anonymous said...

The area can look forward to future cancer clusters springing up here.

Anonymous said...

The New York Times reports New York residents have a hard time believing "The skies will be getting quieter" as the Federal Government considers eliminating flight caps at La Guardia and JFK Airports.

According to the article, upset by a Federal plan to eliminate a rule that limits the number of flights out of La Guardia and John F. Kennedy Airports, residents from both shores of Queens claimed last week that the proposal would erode the few respites they get from the roar of jets over their homes. "You can't get a good night's sleep anymore," said Joseph Fabio of northern Flushing, a founder of a Queens airport watchdog group called Sane Aviation for Everyone, or SAFE. Fabio was among some 100 people who attended a public forum sponsored by the Federal Aviation Administration in Queens on Tuesday. Coming from neighborhoods like Howard Beach and College Point, Maspeth and Rockaway Park, which border the airports or lie under their flight paths, residents told of how their dishes rattled when the jets took off and how they must keep triple-paned windows sealed shut even in good weather to block out noise and fumes from the 2,400 planes that land or take off in Queens each day. Now, they say, they are worried that the Government's plan to allow more planes to use the airports will worsen the problems.

The article reports the Department of Transportation, which oversees the FAA, is asking Congress to repeal the high-density rule which restricts the number of planes landing and taking off each minute at four major airports -- La Guardia, J.F.K., O'Hare in Chicago and Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. At La Guardia, the number of commercial aircraft slots -- designated times when a plane can take off or land -- is limited to 48 per hour from 6 A.M. to midnight. Rose Marie Poveromo, the leader of a civic group in Astoria and Jackson Heights, said, "If the rule is weakened or phased out by Congress, Queens will be deluged by unlimited new flights." But the Government claims that eliminating slots, which airlines own, would increase competition by allowing newer carriers more access to runways. Patrick Murphy, the Transportation Department's deputy assistant secretary, said the 1968 rule that created the slots was aimed at reducing delays from congestion, which are now managed with computer tracking systems. "It was never intended for noise purposes," Mr. Murphy said.

The article goes on to report some measures have been taken to reduce the effects of airplane noise. The Port Authority, which operates the two New York City airports, said it has spent $52 million since 1983 to soundproof Queens, Bronx and Nassau County schools, and $2 million on a sound barrier along La Guardia's western edge. Federal officials said more noise reduction measures are planned. The FAA's regional administrator, Arlene Feldman, said the agency would soon begin a five-year study of the country's air space. Though the primary goal is safety, she said, planners will consider the concerns of communities near airports. And Murphy said that by the end of the year, the Government would require airlines to either stop using noisier older planes, like the Boeing 727 and the McDonnell Douglas DC-9, or fit them with hush kits, which consist of mufflers and other devices. "The skies will be getting quieter," he said.

Anonymous said...

Howard Beach?
Those gavones have lost their gray cells if they think it's paradise.

Queens Crapper said...

Oh yeah, Howard Beach LOVES the airport noise!

Howard Beach: Enduring Half a Century of Airport Noise

Since the airport opened in 1948, noise has been a constant problem for hundreds of thousands of people who live in Howard Beach and nearby neighborhoods in Queens. Despite efforts by officials and new technology aimed at curbing the sound of airplanes taking off and landing around the clock, residents say airport related noise is the main quality-of-life issue plaguing the area and one of the most difficult to address.

Anonymous said...

Let's remember that Howard Beach was developed before the airport was built, not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

John Fazio of West Hamilton Beach said the supersonic Concorde jets regularly fly low over Jamaica Bay and his home.

The vibrations are so powerful, he said, that they once knocked a painting off a wall and, on another occasion, toppled a figurine from the fireplace mantle.

He also has seen the supersonic jets fly low enough to cause powerful wakes in the water and blow branches off trees.

It's not uncommon for departing aircraft to set off car alarms, Fazio said.

"It's really unfair and unsafe to our communities," he said.

Anonymous said...

"Crapper doesnt mention the flight path of JFK runs over a very nice, clean, family community in southern queens.

Doesnt seem to bother anyone there. In fact, when you ask people who live there about the airplanes they say "what airplanes"."

Oh this is priceless. Are you familiar with the organization "SAFE" which was founded by Howard Beach residents because of the plan noise?

Anonymous said...

Howard Beach is known for its proximity to Kennedy Airport (free shuttle buses to the airport are available from the subway station) and the concomitant noise. Planes are supposed to turn so as to fly over Jamaica Bay instead of Howard Beach, but this is an incomplete solution. Everyone in Howard Beach knows that airplane noise is louder on takeoff than landing, louder in summer than winter (dense, humid air means planes need more lift).

Anonymous said...

If you suffer chronic constipation the best place to live is in the middle of a flight path.

It'll shake the shit out of you!

Anonymous said...

Did you realize that Rockaway and Howard Beach received Federal funds to soundproof the classrooms from the plane noise? There are supposedly going to be 2 schools built at Willets Point which sit DIRECTLY under the flightpath. How much soundproofing will they need? And how will that stop the building from vibrating?

Anonymous said...

Evan is up early posting for Shulman/Parkside, no doubt!

Anonymous said...

Not to worry.

The Chinese survived the cultural revolution so what's a little aircraft noise......eh Shulman.

You live far away from it all
and can count your cash in private.

I think Toby S. just crapped all over her ankles!

"Quick....get in here Evan and wipe my shoes off"!

Anonymous said...

Once that waterfront access bridge
that Shulman advocates building connects WP there's room for Flushing's "vibrant bustling" ghetto to expand across the river.

Anonymous said...

Yeah....I guess the plan is to replace Corona's large Latino population with Asians just like Asians are displacing Flushing's African American residents.

What a racist bunch these
local pols really are!

Anonymous said...

supersonic Concorde jets regularly fly low over Jamaica Bay and his home.

The Concorde stopped flying in 2003. Any other irrelevant factoids?


He also has seen the supersonic jets fly low enough to cause powerful wakes in the water and blow branches off trees.


No one is flying "Supersonic" that close to the airport. That is just nonsensical

Anonymous said...

Funny how all these folks who know what's best for Flushing and Willets Point live far from the scene of their past and future crimes.

TDC's Wellington Chen lives in the sedate Westmoreland portion of Little Neck in a deed restricted nabe.

Frau Shulman resides in the quiet northeast Robinwood/Bayside nabe.

Check out where the CB#7 "notables" live for yourselves.

One lives in the Whitestone/Malba
vicinity.

Now you don't see them shitting in their own yards....do you? !!!

Queens Crapper said...

Yes, we know the supersonic has been retired. There's one on display at Floyd Bennett Field. But the rest of the article citations about noise that have been posted have nothing to do with the concorde. Maybe you should just admit that airplane noise is a problem for people who live near airports.

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that noise levels in the SEQRA that was submitted by the City specifically excludes noise from aircraft.

Anonymous said...

Airport noise is not a "problem" in the sense that it restricts people from carrying on their lives and making great neighborhoods.

The fact is many many people have raised families, lived and flourished in these communities for decades in spite of the proximity to the airport. They are very clean, very quaint communities that people are drawn to despite the proximity to the airport.

Why would WIllets Point be any different?

"S.A.F.E." does not speak for the majority of residents in ANY neighborhood. just 100 people showed up to the FAA Forum according to the article. That is hardly a resounding turnout for what is claimed to be such a major issue.

Anonymous said...

100 people is a good turnout for any event in Queens.

And it's not an issue until your kids develop hearing loss because of it.

back in black said...

hey biggie go back to the iron triangle tracker with your puppet raffie lmao hey why don't we move the airport up to south salem so biggie can block the noise out and live like ''trains are coming by'' get a life please dude your making an ass out of yourself

biggie smalls said...

i am a city hack and are paid just to blog negitively against anything that has to do with willets point. i also have a 2nd personality called raffie smalls and even he agrees with me. NOW WE ALL KNOW WHY OUR TAX'S ARE THRU THE ROOF paying for laughable idiots like me

Anonymous said...

That crap is never going to be built...not the way that Granny Shulman thinks...and certainly not in this economy.

She's just a crooked political opportunist with grandiose ideas
right from the Manes mold.

It's time that old cow was turned out to pasture.

And if it's being marketed mainly to Asians...Chinese investors are certainly savvy enough to be capable of reading between the lines (or is across the lines) of any real estate hype BS that's flowing across the seas!

Only the prime stuff in the USA is interesting foreign investors these days.

This is a dump.
Turn some of it into public parkland, if you must, to replace all that's been stolen from FMCP by the USTA and their likes!

Anonymous said...

The flight path of LaGuardia and its noise is perhaps the real reason that downtown Flushing has become a ghetto.

You cannot talk while those things are lumbering overhead.

Who wants to live under that noise?

Anonymous said...

just because people dont look like you doesnt mean it is a "ghetto"

Anonymous said...

no the mounds of trash, the stench and the poor shopping choices make it one, though.

Anonymous said...

hahaha biggie your laughable

Anonymous said...

no the mounds of trash, the stench and the poor shopping choices make it one

under that criteria 95 % of NYC is a ghetto

Anonymous said...

Nice try, but I think not.

Anonymous said...

i have friends who live in whitestone and in college point near the water with eye view of planes taking off and landing and she doesn't complain about the noise. i've gone over there and it's really not that bad. we all live in the path of both airlines, i see planes all the time flying over my house. i guess we just learn to live with it. now cleaning up college point and if the condos are affordable people will buy them. i thought they were building stores, restaurants and hotels, didn't know anything about condos. i'm sorry but anything to clean up the area would be better and it will create jobs. city better be ready to haul out a lot, the place is a mess.

Anonymous said...

thanks for your candid eyewitness account .

I agree the place is a mess and needs to be flattened and rebuilt.

Anonymous said...

Actually it just needs road repair and sewers. Now that it's been rezoned, the rebuilding will happen on its own if the City buts out.

Anonymous said...

whats going on biggies been to collage point looking at planes wow

Anonymous said...

Wow, people who read this shit blog also ride the subway?!?!?!?

Anonymous said...

Can we deport all these racists who are scared to walk in Flushing?