Friday, February 13, 2009

Fighting foreclosure

The Queens Courier this week features stories of people who are fighting foreclosure.

40 comments:

Maspethian said...

God bless them. But I bet for every homeowner facing foreclosure, there are a couple of hundred homeowners having a tough time, who made better decisions. What relief do they get? What about $$$ to those who didnt buy into the overpriced housing market bc they thought it was well, er, uh, OVERPRICED?

In all its perversity, this is how the govt treats people - reward bad decisions, bc they can always be funded by those who make good decisions.

I have a great deal of sympathy for these people. But they should lose their homes like the people who dont pay their rent lose theirs. It is only after the housing market deflates that this housing crisis can be resolved.

georgetheatheist said...

"She [Millington] also said they [the bank] lent her the money without looking at a bank statement or any other financial documentation."

THAT'S BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SUED FOR DISCRIMINATION HAD THEY DONE SO.

"In order to change the current situation, she [Davis] said the country's leadership needs to oversee those who are trying to take advantage of vulnerable people when they get a mortgage and that said individuals should be penalized."

THE LENDERS ARE NOW DAMNED IF THEY DO AND DAMNED IF THEY DON'T.

"..one of the worst things you can do when dealing with predatory lenders" Crenshaw said.

LOOK IN THE MIRROR, CRENSHAW: THE CORRECT TERMINOLOGY IS PREDATORY BORROWING.

"I told him [the real estate broker] from the beginning I have 12 children..."

THAT NUMBER IS NOT A MISPRINT.

This mess started with the Housing policies of Bill Clinton and his "ownership society". The precise culprit is Andrew Cuomo, Clinton's Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (and now NYS Attorney General) who fostered these subprime mortgages. It is not only an economic/sociologic problem, but one of psychology as well.

THE LIBERAL IS RIDDLED WITH GUILT. TO ASSUAGE IT, HE MEDDLES IN THE ECONOMY WITH DISASTROUS RESULTS.

georgetheatheist said...

How prescient (from the year 1946 [!] Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson"):

"Government-guaranteed home mortgages, especially when a negligible down payment or no down payment whatever is required, inevitably mean more bad loans than otherwise. They force the general taxpayer to subsidize the bad risks and to defray the losses. They encourage people to 'buy' houses that they cannot really afford. They tend eventually to bring about an oversupply of houses as compared with other things. They temporarily overstimulate building, raise the cost of building for everybody (including the buyers of the homes with the guaranteed mortgages), and may mislead the building industry into an eventually costly overexpansion. In brief, in the long run, they do not increase overall national production but encourage malinvestment."

A=A. Existence exists.

www.aynrand.org

Anonymous said...

Do not pin this mess on the poor and the ignorant. No one forced bankers to adopt new interest-rate policies on mortgages and credit cards that effectively made monthly payment schedules anyone's guess. No one forced bankers to dis-assemble depression-era regulations that segregated risk in discrete sectors of the financial infrastructure to limit systemic risk and no one forced the bankers to leverage and multiply their risk by dicing up the loans and issuing exotic derivations that Warren Buffet, a famously-skilled investor called, "Financial instruments of mass-destruction." The Community Reinvestment Act was written to discourage red-lining by banks and force them to lend where they borrowed (that is what a bank account is, your loan to the bank.)
This act was law in 1978 when I was an 18 year-old bank teller and I am now a late-middle aged woman. Back then mortgage rates were fixed and 20% down was required. You also had to prove your income and assets and strict financial ratios kept over-borrowing down. Bankers are in a better position to ascertain risk than the financially-illiterate and they should do their jobs.

Maspethian said...

"Back then mortgage rates were fixed and 20% down was required. You also had to prove your income and assets and strict financial ratios kept over-borrowing down. Bankers are in a better position to ascertain risk than the financially-illiterate and they should do their jobs."

Wow congrats on being able to say youre wrong, but also simultaneously being able to cite the legislation which proves you wrong.

georgetheatheist said...

"Do not pin this mess on the poor and the ignorant."

I didn't. I pinned it on Andrew Cuomo (and his ilk).

The ARCHTYPE of the the poor, ignorant psychologically-tormented Liberal.

Anonymous said...

It is one thing to pro-actively dupe a mentally incapacitated senior citizen into signing away their home; it is another to borrow way too much. One is a crime, the other is not.

faster340 said...

People need to READ the FINE PRINT!!!! Or get someone to do it for them. Swallow that pride and get help. There are legal services and people who can help if need be. And if it's too good to be true it probably is! Some people need to open their eyes when it comes to their own mortgages and finances. Also if you know you can't afford it don't get the mortgage/loan!!! It's common sense!!!

When my wife and I bought our house in 2004 we read the documents over and over and then had someone else read them and then our lawyer. At the closing the bank tried to rush us through and we wouldn't let them. We spent an extra hour at closing making sure we dotted out i's and crossed our t's.... There was no way in hell we were going to be duped into anything because at that time we used a mortgage broker! Those people are unscrupulous!!!

Predatory lenders or not - Remember people - CAVEAT EMPTOR = Let the buyer beware!!!

italian girl said...

faster:
Yeah, but you and your wife had some scruples apparently. Many people were so eager to have the dream house, it didn't matter how much they had to borrow to get it. Most younger people who bought homes in the last couple of years, especially those who had homes built i.e. McMansions) borrowed 500K+ to get them. They are all going to be very upset when the values come down and their mortgage is worth more than the house. Two parties are to blame for the mess. The banks who lowered theri requirements and people who were too stupid to understand what they were getting into.

faster340 said...

"Many people were so eager to have the dream house, it didn't matter how much they had to borrow to get it. Most younger people who bought homes in the last couple of years, especially those who had homes built i.e. McMansions) borrowed 500K+ to get them."

Well then it looks like these people and the banks are meant for each other then! I don't feel bad for either!

But the people who do the right thing and get the mortgage properly and have the money to pay shouldn't have their tax dollars bail these people and their unscrupulous banks out! The government should bail US OUT for doing the right thing!!!

My wife and I lived in a rent stabilized apartment for over 10 years before we had the money to do this! We waited and saved and now we have to pay price for assholes who didn't want to wait!

italian girl said...

"But the people who do the right thing and get the mortgage properly and have the money to pay shouldn't have their tax dollars bail these people and their unscrupulous banks out! The government should bail US OUT for doing the right thing!!!"

My husband says the exact same thing.


What the hell were these people thinking borrowing so much money? How do they sleep at night? But I blame the banks more because they should have known better. They were just enjoying the money too much to stop any of it.

Wade Nichols said...

But I blame the banks more because they should have known better. They were just enjoying the money too much to stop any of it.

Plenty of blame to go around to plenty of different parties:

- Alan Greenspan - Kept "spiking the punch bowl" when everyone was already drunk by keeping interest rates too low for too long. Also spiked the punch bowl with LSD - not a wise thing to do!
- Bank regulators - Asleep at the wheel! What's the point in having them if they're ineffective anyways?
- CRA Regulations and Fair Lending Laws - Funny how everyone said - "You've go to loan to minorities, provide access to capital, etc. etc.". Now they tell us: "What were you thinking loaning $700,000 to Jose the grape picker?"
- Banks - What were these "risk managers" and "quants" at the banks even doing? They "earned" the high salaries, and left the risk with the taxpayers.
- Ignorant, Low IQ Borrowers - Do you really understand that you can't afford a loan for $500,000 on a $50,000 salary? Have you really read and understood all these documents you just signed?

There's plenty more guilty parties, these are just a few of the stinkiest ones!

Anonymous said...

Do not pin this mess on the poor and the ignorant.

---------

Tweeder programs cut them off from reality.

Get real. An 8 year old has more sense.

Anonymous said...

I tend to agree with a lot of what people are saying about how those of us who scrimp and save, and who defer gratification wind up with no help, whereas some fools rush in types get bailed out free and easy.

Will this happen with Social Security, health care and other programs?. My lovely wife and I are trying to save a little, we do not go out much, we keep a lid on things. We live below our means (a good policy, I recommend) and we are happy with each other and with our lives. But we see others get help and we get nada. Sorry to sound like Lou Dobbs, but sometimes....

Anonymous said...

Wow, maybe Washington should be listening in here. Sounds like everybody's got it all figured out.

georgethefetishist, let me ask you something... Did you pay for your home with cash, 100 percent?

Wade Nichols said...

Will this happen with Social Security, health care and other programs?. My lovely wife and I are trying to save a little, we do not go out much, we keep a lid on things. We live below our means (a good policy, I recommend) and we are happy with each other and with our lives. But we see others get help and we get nada.

Keep working hard, Anonymous!

People such as you and everyone else here have to continue working hard to support our sainted beneficiaries such as the latest media darling in California - "Octo-Mom"!!! Don't spend too much on those fancy restaurants such as Chipotle and Chili's! Remember, "Octo-Mom's" children are relying on you and us to support her and perpetuate her DNA into the future!

To the victors go the spoils!

To the stupid go the welfare benefits!

italian girl said...

Octo-Mom has been getting a lot of grief over this kids. And it's very well-deserved. Personally I think she's mentally ill. What woman in her right mind would want THAT many kids? And with no husband for that matter. They should arrest the doctor who implanted 8 embryos into her extremely fertile uterus. I read somewhere that doctors aren't supposed to implant that many in a woman under 35.

georgetheatheist said...

Attention all schmucks.

Notice how the left wing media skews this foreclosure story by sympathetically depicting those who can't pay their mortgages. Why not feature those who can and were responsible?

Italian "girl": "...I blame the banks more because they should have known better..."

The banks did know better. If they didn't lend they would have been sued for practicing discrimination. Is that so hard for you to understand? Liberal Democratic subprime housing policies instituted by Clinton and his factotum Andrew Cuomo caused this mess.

italian girl said...

Must you blame Bubba for EVERYTHING? I'll bet he was under pressure from various minority groups to help out because they probably felt(as many minorities often feel) discriminated against by the banks. Wasn't he known as the first "black" president? If so, he HAD to do something or risk political and/or racial scandal. And I think most politicians would rather have a sex scandal than a racial one.

georgetheatheist said...

[Hmmm. I really can't handle her now. Got things to do. Maybe later. Wouldn't even know where to begin. The head is reeling. I need some fresh air.]

italian girl said...

:)

Mission accomplished.

Anonymous said...

Disgorge the profits made by the greedy and unscrupulous mortagage brokers and force them to pick up the burden of paying off these foreclosures instead of adding this liability to the already burdened taxpayers.

Let's reintroduce the concept of personal budgeting in our school curriculums to teach citizens to live within their means. We need a major overhaul in the way people view money and debt. These individuals were foolish to strap themselves with adjustable rate mortgages or other home financing which they should have known they could not afford. Ultimately, however, it's the banks that are to blame. The regulators need to get cracking with regulatory laws and penalties for predatory lending.

Finally, we need to insist that overpriced condos and luxury housing yield to affordable housing. Rent stabilization laws need to be expanded and politicians need to protect their middle class tax base before we all disappear due to the rampant greed and malfeasance of the financiers who stand to make millions from other's misery and who shift the burden of picking up the tab to the taxpayer.

faster340 said...

I am just sick of all this crap. My job was terminated in January at Time Warner after 8 years as a System Administrator and Computer Technician. Luckily my wifes salary can cover the mortgage but not much more. I have been pumping gas to cover the rest while I try to find a job in my field which is proving to be very difficult. If we had bought beyond our means we would really be in trouble but we didn't! We used our brains instead of our emotional wants! But where is our help? Where is our bailout? No where to be found!!!!!! Sure there is unemployment but $405 a week doesn't go that far and I haven't claimed because there are other people out there in more need than us and I wouldn't feel right about taking it even though I have a right to.

The banks don't deserve the bailout and the automakers don't deserve the bailout! The people who live in this country do!!!

Oh by the way if anyone needs a top notch computer tech trained by Time Warner please hit me up offline at faster340@yahoo.com. I can fix anything...

Thanks.

Wade Nichols said...

Sure there is unemployment but $405 a week doesn't go that far and I haven't claimed because there are other people out there in more need than us and I wouldn't feel right about taking it even though I have a right to.

There's no shame in collecting unemployment benefits. It's not the same as welfare. In fact, you've actually contributed to the unemployment insurance fund through money taken out of your paycheck when you were working. Consider it as an insurance policy that you contributed towards. Now that you've been laid off, you've earned the right to "collect" on that policy.

I wouldn't engage in any needless "hand wringing" over it, ultimately the decision is yours. But there's no shame in receiving unemployment. It's not the same as laying around all day, having 6 kids out of wedlock, and using public assistance to buy a case of beer.

Good luck in your job search, I'll keep you in mind if by chance I see something.

italian girl said...

I'm so sorry you lost your job, faster. But definitely file a claim for unemployment. It's your right and it will help out big time. Things will get better but it will take a while.

faster340 said...

Thanks Wade but it's definitely not a shame thing. If I was in dire need I would definitely claim. Honestly it's a PITA also to go through the claim stuff and have to check in 2x week and have to prove you are looking for work and such. They definitely don't make it easy to collect. I have side computer jobs and am putting in a few hours at the gas pump. This is working for me for now. Definitely not close to the money I was making but it's ok for now.

Thanks IG I know it's gonna take some time...

Anonymous said...

Two thoughts:

Anyone facing foreclosure who needs assistance can get help by calling 311 and asking for foreclosure prevention assistance. There are a lot of nonprofit, community-based organizations that can help people find the best resolution to their situation.

Second, although CRA's critics claim otherwise, CRA does NOT mandate that banks lend to disadvantaged borrowers who are not credit-worthy, nor did it lead to banks lowering their underwriting standards to comply with the law. According to an independent study of 2006 mortgage loan data conducted by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley LLP, CRA actually deterred banks from engaging in the kinds of risky and subprime lending that brought on the foreclosure crisis. Specifically, the findings show that:

1. CRA banks were significantly less likely than other lenders to make a high cost loan;
2. The average APR on high cost loans originated by CRA banks was appreciably lower than the average APR on high cost loans originated by other lenders;
3. CRA banks were more than twice as likely as other lenders to retain originated loans in their portfolios; and
4. Foreclosure rates were lower in metropolitan statistical areas with greater concentrations of bank branches.

Let me repeat: The data shows that CRA actually deterred irresponsible lending. CRA has absolutely NOTHING to do with this mess, as subprime lenders, mortgage brokers, and other actors are not covered by CRA requirements. The numbers are not ideological; the bad loans were made by people governed by greed, not CRA.

Instead of blaming CRA, we should extend CRA provisions to the independent mortgage companies and bank affiliates from which at least 75% of subprime loans originated. To continue to mislead the public on the benefits of CRA is not only immoral, but it would lead us into situation in which more – not less – of the irresponsible lending that created our current meltdown takes place.

Trilby said...

If you make no down payment, you do not "own" anything. You are on the hook for taxes, repairs, maintenance, insurance, but no, you do not own. It is a bad deal and a stupid deal.

Also, to the lady with 12 kids, I say to you what Groucho Marx famously said to a guest with a large family: Madam, I love my cigar but I take it out of my mouth occasionally.

Anonymous said...

These sound like deadbeats, one and all. The guy that had the foreclosure thrown out hasn't made another single payment in over a year. So he feels he is entitled to live for FREE? The one that purchased the home for $60,000 yet pays $3500 is so obsurd. Why on earth would any reasonable person agree to that? The real answer here is that these people were not ready for homeownership but are renters. When you are ready you take the process seriously and you read and understand everything before you sign. This is not a lease, it is more complicated and until they are ready to approach it in that way they need to start from scratch.

Anonymous said...

*THE LIBERAL IS RIDDLED WITH GUILT. TO ASSUAGE IT, HE MEDDLES IN THE ECONOMY WITH DISASTROUS RESULTS.

Your a righteous simpleton who has not a clue of politics. Go read little Rand and spare us the evil liberal nonsense when you spout that Wall Street doctrine of "personal responsibility" hypocrisy. Tell us about How wonderful Milton Friedman is their george the economist?

Influenced by his close friend George Stigler, Friedman opposed government regulation of all sorts.

Milton Friedmans views of monetary policy, taxation, privatization and deregulation informed the policy of governments around the globe, especially the administrations of Augusto Pinochet in Chile, Margaret Thatcher in Britain, Ronald Reagan in the US, Brian Mulroney in Canada, Roger Douglas in New Zealand, and (after 1989) in many Eastern European countries.

Quite the band of leaders.

Anonymous said...

"Your a righteous simpleton who has not a clue of politics."

And you don't know "your" from "you are" so in the words of Dick Cheney, "Go fuck your self!"

Anonymous said...

Just a word of explanation to those hell-bent on blaming the poor for this collapse. No one can borrow without someone willing to lend.

The lenders immediately repackage the mortgages and even credit card portfolios into bonds that they offload onto other people.

Lenders don't care because they want to stick others with the bad debt.

They also use exotic means such as collaterallized debt obligations to ratchet up profit and risk.

For all those old-timers pontificating how responsible they are, remember bankers used to be responsible too and they are the pros, not the amateurs.

No one should buy what they "cannot afford," but if the payments change unpredictably at the drop of a hat, how can you budget? If the banks don't want to agree to a fixed rate mortgage, do you think some poor dope who needs a place to stay could not be suckered into buying something because of the need to live somewhere and rising rents?

Anonymous said...

For those reviling the lenders, remember this, THEY LIVED UP TO THEIR PART OF THE BARGAIN AND PONIED UP $$$$ SO THESE DEADBEATS BOULD BUY A HOUSE. Now they want to do what they are contractually allowed to do. The deadbeates are takin the heat in this thread because THEY dont want to live up to their end of a contract.

Anonymous said...

My point is not to exonerate, thieves, deadbeats or crooks, but to remind everyone that people must know what something actually costs before they can decide whether to buy it. Adjustable credit cards and ARMs bury landmines in the financial landscape.

Futhermore, in New York State in the 1980s the usury ceiling was 25%. Go above that and you were subject to arrest. Pay-day loans and credit card accounts routinely cost 40% and more. According to the law of 72, a loan at 12% compounded will double in 6 years. Imagine the growth on a 36 or 40% loan. I doubt our schools prepare most of these borrows to do financial calculations.

Anonymous said...

Milton Friedman was a Nobel laureate.

Anonymous said...

The really sad story here is that, as a result of those who bought homes they knew they couldn't afford, the economy has suffered and those responsible people who could afford homes are losing their jobs as a result and may possibly have to foreclose in the near future.

Queens Crapper said...

No the saddest part is that the banks lent to them knowing they couldn't afford the houses and with the intention of foreclosing on them. That's what sent the rest in motion.

Anonymous said...

While I agree that the conduct of the bankers was reprehensible, it was never about foreclosing on property intentionally, but on selling bad commercial paper at a profit, pocketing service and finance fees and making money off leverage and through the sale of exotic derivatives.

If you recall your history, a major cause of the 1929 stock crash was the public's ability to buy stocks for 10 cents on the dollar. We substituted stocks for houses and 10 cents for a nickle. Otherwise the mechanism and results are identical.

This is why I come down so hard on the bankers. When I was a young teller we had myriad regulations such as Glass-Steagal and financial rules of thumb such as no more than 30% of income to be devoted to debt, mortgages to require at least 20% down etc. The bankers know better and now they are extorting public money with the not-so-veiled threat of taking down the system and destroying depositor's life savings.

Anonymous said...

My point is not to exonerate, thieves, deadbeats or crooks, but to remind everyone that people must know what something actually costs before they can decide whether to buy it.

----

THE COST AND THE FACTS ARE LAID OUT IN THE LOAN DOCUMENTS. MOST WERE TOO GIDDY WITH THE PROSPECTS OF GETTING A LOAN THEY DIDN'T CARE TO READ IT. OR THEY WERE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND IT. OR THEY DIDN'T CARE BECAUSE THEY HAD NO INTENTION OR REPAYING. BECAUSE OF THEM OUR ECONOMY IS IN THE TIOLET. THEY HAVE TO SHARE JUST AS MUCH BLAME AS THE BANKERS. IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO. THIS IS NOT AGAINST THOSE THAT WERE REPONSIBLE AND LOST THEIR JOB AND WERE FORCE INTO FORCLOSEURE. ONE WOMAN HEVER HAD 12 KIDS. NO DOUBT PROBABLY ALSO ON GOVERNMENT SUPPORT. CLOSE YOUR LEGS AND OPEN A BOOK AND EDUCATE YOURSELF. IF YOU ACT LIKE A FOOL YOU WILL BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. I FEEL NO PITY FOR THESE THEIVES DEADBEATS AND FRAUDSTERS. THAT WHAT THEY ARE.

Maspethian said...

How hard is this? We should all agree - don't bailout banks and dont bailout homeborrowers. Too bad its too late for the former. Thanks GWB and BHO.