Hey remember the Doorman vs. the G-Spot in Sunnyside? He was concerned that the place was going to be a strip club and cause problems in his district. He was mainly concerned that it was 2 blocks away from his house and acted on just the rumor that the owner wanted to open more than a bar.
Well there's another night club in the area that's been open for some time called "Queens Palace" on 57th Street in Woodside. Here's what goes on there:
Mr. Gioia, we notice you haven't expressed similar outrage about this place. Why is that? Note to Eric: This place has strippers, too!
Fat black bucks in a wine-barrel room Barrel house kings, with feet unstable, [A deep rolling bass.] Sagged and reeled and pounded on the table, Pounded on the table, Beat an empty barrel with the handle of a broom, Hard as they were able, Boom, boom, BOOM, With a silk umbrella and the handle of a broom, Boomlay, boomlay, boomlay, BOOM...
...Mumbo-jumbo will hoo-doo you.
[excerpted from THE CONGO. A poem by Vachel Linday, 1914]
There are worse things - the dances could the real thing in a public club - there are plenty of those & legal in Manhattan. I am no advocate of this - this is simply trash with people acting trash and possibly looking for the real experience with like a minded partner later on.
I can see violence quickly escalating from this activity and would be concerned. The club owner better have a lock down type security to keep this under control - I doubt it - it seems like a short term enterprise.
The characterization of blacks as savages is an uneducated generalization. There are non black estabilshments throughout the city where one can observe similar behaviour. The late Anna Nichol would fit right in.
But I'm trying to evolve, so while it once would've caused me to get angry and defensive, I can't harbor ill-will toward the bigots here. I'll pray for you instead.
I don't even understand the point of this post. Is it "wow - look at a bunch of Caribbeans dancing!" Is the councilman supposed to be trying to shut it down b/c you guys don't like what goes on in their club? Please, some one fill me in, because it's not obvious.
"Is the councilman supposed to be trying to shut it down b/c you guys don't like what goes on in their club?"
The point is that's exactly what the councilman did do when this type of thing was rumored to be planned for a location 2 blocks from his house. But it's going on elsewhere in his district without a peep from Mr. Gioia.
Thanks for your response QC. If your point is that Gioia is a hypocrite, I won't argue, as I don't know enough about the establishments at issue.
But I'm still confused about what makes this place "controversial" in the first place. It's not a strip club, it's a dance club. People are dancing erotically, as people tend to do these days, especially younger ones.
And in other news, the federal gov't has given hundreds of billions of dollars to a few banks w/no accountability or transparency, jeopardizing the future of the entire republic.
I wonder how that compares in the moral outrage category in comparison to black people dancing sexually.
"And in other news, the federal gov't has given hundreds of billions of dollars to a few banks w/no accountability or transparency, jeopardizing the future of the entire republic."
You know a person is from Queens if they tell you something is not worth being concerned about because there are bigger problems in the world.
HAHAHA! What, did I step into the 1940's? Ya know, that Elvis is a real threat to our culture!
You guys are great. If I had the time, I could go back and forth all day w/this. It seems like I'm a solo voice. But the irony is we're on a blog about the second most populous borough in the most diverse and enlightened metropolis in the world. So it's actually the other way around.
"If you beleive [sic] this is ok because they are people of color you are the racist."
Kindly re-read my posts, you seem confused. It's not "ok" b/c they're black. It's "ok" because they're DANCING!!! I don't give a shit what color or ethnicity they are! They're enjoying themselves and causing harm to no one! Color only enters the discussion b/c some commenters are invoking their race.
Deliciously, all who're offended actually took the time out of their Saturday to view the 2+ minute video and then felt the need to express their disapproval. Oh, the irony!
"They're enjoying themselves and causing harm to no one!"
Which is exactly what would have happened if that club opened around the corner from Gioia. But he wouldn't allow it in his backyard. So why is it ok that it's in someone else's?
Well, if it's just dancing, is cool. And WHERE on 57th street? If it's on Roosevelt where it's already noisy and non-residential, then bully for them. It's not the nature of the business that skeeved most people out, but the location - not even steps away from a residential-only district and catty-corner to a childrens' park. Strip clubs are open all the time and I don't relish the thought of pre-teen boys piling up by the fence to catch a glimpse of fishnet-covered skin. It's what I would have done. Give 'em a chance for some fresh air and some sunshine. Let them get mooned when they earn their own entrance fees.
..do the hokey pokey and turn yourselves around, that's what it's all about......anybody up for doing the alley cat?...slow your breathing down..they're not the Ton Tons, no need to be intimidated, i promise, they won't come in the night and take you away..repeat after me: hospitals closing HERE, GD tweeders HERE, some of those 600,000 lost jobs HERE...say it again...repeat until refocused....i counter your vachel lindsay with an ezra pound...
I don't understand why we don't "redline" districts more... I mean, why don't we have a Pigalle or similar Red Light district? It's just classic American Protestant Denial. "If we don't admit it exists, maybe it will go away." But it doesn't go away, it goes elsewhere and metastasizes.
Well, yeah, we have "areas," but they're the most unfashionable, inaccessible areas in NYC. I wouldn't want to put up a business there either.
To my mind, though, these dance clubs are probably innocuous. Every generation has a new method of dry-humping called dance. From the Waltz to the Jitterbug to Lambada to the Dagger is an unbroken chain of "gasp! horrors!"
So unless you're willing to go John Lithgow on their asses, there's not much to be done. Now everybody get footloose...
Am I okay with the strippers? It depends who, what, when and where. No, I'd rather not have one in my immediate vicinity, because it would lower property values and I'm greedy. But having one nearby isn't so bad. Sure it's NIMBY, but so what? That's what property and politics is all about - ownership and influence. I have been to strip clubs, I won't say I disliked them because that's like saying you don't inhale. Of COURSE I like them.
They're not stripping at this spot, which is sort of beside the point, I'm sure. The problem with the club Gioia fought to shut down was that there were SHOOTINGS and drug dealing there, not boobies. If there's actual illegal behavior here, then sure. Raid the joint. But as far as I can tell, this is just daggering, which may seem distasteful to some, but if they're abiding by the law and being quiet outside, I don't see a real problem.
Jeremy, I do have a question. What do you like strippers for? I mean don't you think it's such a tease since you're not supposed to be touching them? Just curious.
What do I like about strippers? The fact that I *can't* touch them, if that makes any sense. The tease is what most men are there for. Men actually *like* the tease. Look, I'm married. I see a hot chick in her birthday suit all the time, but what's sexy about stripping isn't the nudity, it's the clothing. It's what you can't do and don't see that's sexy. I don't want to get into Brechtian alienation and the power of the unseen, but it's important for fantasy that some things remain untouchable. I don't usually go; as a matter of fact, almost never. That's because I have neither the time nor the money to be throwing dollar bills into some broad's thong. But that's not to say that I don't appreciate the frisson of doing so.
Fine, exotic dancers - whatever. I don't particularly care as long as they follow the law and zoning. It's harder to close down a place once it's running than it is to prevent its opening. And if they're running it according to law, then whatevs. I'm not going to judge them based on one out-of-context clip and a lurid poster.
But don't you think guys would be better off spending time, energy and money on a girl who actually gives a crap about them instead of these girls in a strip club.
Another issue I have with these places is that these girls are often abused, on drugs and some are forced to be there. Doesn't that bug you?
"But don't you think guys would be better off spending time, energy and money on a girl who actually gives a crap about them instead of these girls in a strip club." Clearly you're a female, or you wouldn't even need to ask this question. Men aren't turned on by caring and loving, frankly. I mean, we like it, but males are evolutionarily programmed to prefer variety. A strip club is a way to engage that fantasy in a way that's safer than, say, promiscuity.
"Another issue I have with these places is that these girls are often abused, on drugs and some are forced to be there. Doesn't that bug you?" An issue I have with Churches is that child sexual abuse happens there. I'm not going to shut down churches. As for "often," I don't know. I know plenty of exotic dancers who don't even drink, and not because they're alcoholics. Have you been to a strip club? The power relationship isn't what you think it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against strip clubs entirely. I just think married men really have no place there. I've no problem with young, college-aged guys, for instance going there. I'll bet it's kinda fun. But married, older guys? Kinda lame, wouldn't you say? Don't get me wrong, you are NOT old by any means. But is it the kind of thing that you keep from your wife or you tell her openly "I'm going to a strip club tonight?" Have I ever been to one? No. But heard about what goes on inside. As I said before, a married guy has no place there. You prabably think I'm a total square but that's how I feel.
You make me laugh, Italian Girl. Are you married? My guess is no. If strip clubs catered to only young single men, they'd be closed within weeks.
Yes, my wife knows I've been. And she's probably more concerned about the money it costs than any tail being shaken in my face. And yes, if there's a bachelor party or something I tell her where I'm going.
Don't idealize marriage too much; it's a great way to get unhappy or divorced.
I hope what I said wasn't offensive. I guess what really bothers me is the fact guys would WANT to go to a strip club. I feel like it's almost a slight against me if my husband were to go. Like he's not satisfied with me, if that makes any sense. You gave a very good explanation before about why they go. But I guess since I'm not a guy, I'll never get it.
No, you didn't offend me. You just sounded a little naive and small-c-catholic in your sensibilities. I've heard that "they should put the energy into their wives" thing on every womens' daytime talk show like, ever. Women don't understand that sexual energy in men isn't a zero-sum game. As a matter of fact, it's the opposite - a chained man is a droopy man. Some women even prefer that a man gets his fire stoked at one of these places and brings it home to her.
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64 comments:
Just who owns this place?
Everything in Queens is owned by the machine.
Pity the next time they gather instead of hearing Crowley sing they should run videos of this stuff (check out the other vids on you tube)
This is their legacy to Queens.
instead of hearing Crowley sing
I understand McLaughlin can't dance but he can sure sing.
Painful to watch.
Squalid their lives.
Can't you see what those fat girls will look like in 20 or even 10 years?
Yeach.
"One-two-hump-hump-hump.
Three-four-hump-hump-hump."
Is Arthur Murray still in business? I believe I'd like to learn these new dazzling dance steps.
You can take the Savage out of the Jungle. But you can't take the Jungle out of the Savage.
BTW what you see here was what transpired at the Club Kahlua on the eve of Sean Bell's wedding.
A poem by Vachel Lindsay:
The Congo
A Study of the Negro Race
I Their Basic Savagery
Fat black bucks in a wine-barrel room
Barrel house kings, with feet unstable,
[A deep rolling bass.]
Sagged and reeled and pounded on the table,
Pounded on the table,
Beat an empty barrel with the handle of a broom,
Hard as they were able,
Boom, boom, BOOM,
With a silk umbrella and the handle of a broom,
Boomlay, boomlay, boomlay, BOOM...
...Mumbo-jumbo will hoo-doo you.
[excerpted from THE CONGO. A poem by Vachel Linday, 1914]
Erratum: Vachel Lindsay [no relation to the former Mayor]
Maspeth Mom says...
Obviously the people in the video have no respect for themselves or others. Really sad that people feel this is having fun.
There are worse things - the dances could the real thing in a public club - there are plenty of those & legal in Manhattan. I am no advocate of this - this is simply trash with people acting trash and possibly looking for the real experience with like a minded partner later on.
I can see violence quickly escalating from this activity and would be concerned. The club owner better have a lock down type security to keep this under control - I doubt it - it seems like a short term enterprise.
This type of "dance" is called "daggering".
The characterization of blacks as savages is an uneducated generalization. There are non black estabilshments throughout the city where one can observe similar behaviour. The late Anna Nichol would fit right in.
Wow - the racism in these comments is disgusting.
But I'm trying to evolve, so while it once would've caused me to get angry and defensive, I can't harbor ill-will toward the bigots here. I'll pray for you instead.
I don't even understand the point of this post. Is it "wow - look at a bunch of Caribbeans dancing!" Is the councilman supposed to be trying to shut it down b/c you guys don't like what goes on in their club? Please, some one fill me in, because it's not obvious.
"Is the councilman supposed to be trying to shut it down b/c you guys don't like what goes on in their club?"
The point is that's exactly what the councilman did do when this type of thing was rumored to be planned for a location 2 blocks from his house. But it's going on elsewhere in his district without a peep from Mr. Gioia.
Exactly, it's the hypocrisy that's being called on the carpet more than the dancing.
Why do Caribbeans dance this way? It reflects poorly on them.
Thanks for your response QC. If your point is that Gioia is a hypocrite, I won't argue, as I don't know enough about the establishments at issue.
But I'm still confused about what makes this place "controversial" in the first place. It's not a strip club, it's a dance club. People are dancing erotically, as people tend to do these days, especially younger ones.
And in other news, the federal gov't has given hundreds of billions of dollars to a few banks w/no accountability or transparency, jeopardizing the future of the entire republic.
I wonder how that compares in the moral outrage category in comparison to black people dancing sexually.
Wow - the racism in these comments is disgusting.
---------
Exhibit A of the result of multiculturalism and tweeding.
This 'dancing' is gutter, ghetto, crude, and demeaning.
If you beleive this is ok because they are people of color you are the racist.
I know plenty people of color that would have a lot worse things to say about this than anything posted on this board.
Wade would have a picnic with this.
"And in other news, the federal gov't has given hundreds of billions of dollars to a few banks w/no accountability or transparency, jeopardizing the future of the entire republic."
You know a person is from Queens if they tell you something is not worth being concerned about because there are bigger problems in the world.
Maybe you think it would have been acceptable for the Obamas to have danced this way at the inauguration.
HAHAHA! What, did I step into the 1940's? Ya know, that Elvis is a real threat to our culture!
You guys are great. If I had the time, I could go back and forth all day w/this. It seems like I'm a solo voice. But the irony is we're on a blog about the second most populous borough in the most diverse and enlightened metropolis in the world. So it's actually the other way around.
"If you beleive [sic] this is ok because they are people of color you are the racist."
Kindly re-read my posts, you seem confused. It's not "ok" b/c they're black. It's "ok" because they're DANCING!!! I don't give a shit what color or ethnicity they are! They're enjoying themselves and causing harm to no one! Color only enters the discussion b/c some commenters are invoking their race.
Deliciously, all who're offended actually took the time out of their Saturday to view the 2+ minute video and then felt the need to express their disapproval. Oh, the irony!
How could they express their disapproval if they didn't watch the video?
And this ain't dancing. Dancing generally doesn't involve simulated sex on the floor of a warehouse-turned-disco.
"They're enjoying themselves and causing harm to no one!"
Which is exactly what would have happened if that club opened around the corner from Gioia. But he wouldn't allow it in his backyard. So why is it ok that it's in someone else's?
"...acceptable for the Obamas to have danced this way at the inauguration."
Obama's maternal background tempered the savage instinct.
No the point is that it is socially unacceptable and no doubt there was a lot more than just "dancing" going on at that club.
Well, if it's just dancing, is cool. And WHERE on 57th street? If it's on Roosevelt where it's already noisy and non-residential, then bully for them. It's not the nature of the business that skeeved most people out, but the location - not even steps away from a residential-only district and catty-corner to a childrens' park. Strip clubs are open all the time and I don't relish the thought of pre-teen boys piling up by the fence to catch a glimpse of fishnet-covered skin. It's what I would have done. Give 'em a chance for some fresh air and some sunshine. Let them get mooned when they earn their own entrance fees.
And this in a similar location. A row of houses right down the street.
Queens Crapper is just outraged because no one wants to grind on his dusty ass lap
..do the hokey pokey and turn yourselves around, that's what it's all about......anybody up for doing the alley cat?...slow your breathing down..they're not the Ton Tons, no need to be intimidated, i promise, they won't come in the night and take you away..repeat after me: hospitals closing HERE, GD tweeders HERE, some of those 600,000 lost jobs HERE...say it again...repeat until refocused....i counter your vachel lindsay with an ezra pound...
What the hell is wrong these girls? Is this the only way they can get a guy's attention?
who cares what wade says!!
adeez: You guys are great. If I had the time, I could go back and forth all day w/this. It seems like I'm a solo voice.
Nah, adeez, there are a few other sane people around here. Just generally the aggressively obnoxious and racist outnumber us. Keep at it!
RW
How come you don't see any Chinese dancing like that?
"Colorful, vibrant, diverse"!
This obviously IS NOT
a landmarked district.
This might have been the fate of Sunnyside Gardens had Meiklejohn and her cohorts had their way!
Forget-about-it...historic districts are only for the "swells" and discriminate against the poorer classes.!
DUMP THE LAW! It's inequitable!
Stop knocking it.
This is going to bring tourism to Queens (ha, ha, ha)!
I don't understand why we don't "redline" districts more... I mean, why don't we have a Pigalle or similar Red Light district? It's just classic American Protestant Denial. "If we don't admit it exists, maybe it will go away." But it doesn't go away, it goes elsewhere and metastasizes.
We do have areas where this is permissable. The problem is that the clubs misrepresent what they are and who they cater to and then it's too late.
Well, yeah, we have "areas," but they're the most unfashionable, inaccessible areas in NYC. I wouldn't want to put up a business there either.
To my mind, though, these dance clubs are probably innocuous. Every generation has a new method of dry-humping called dance. From the Waltz to the Jitterbug to Lambada to the Dagger is an unbroken chain of "gasp! horrors!"
So unless you're willing to go John Lithgow on their asses, there's not much to be done. Now everybody get footloose...
So you're ok with the strippers?
Am I okay with the strippers? It depends who, what, when and where. No, I'd rather not have one in my immediate vicinity, because it would lower property values and I'm greedy. But having one nearby isn't so bad. Sure it's NIMBY, but so what? That's what property and politics is all about - ownership and influence. I have been to strip clubs, I won't say I disliked them because that's like saying you don't inhale. Of COURSE I like them.
I mean in this spot. Because you said they're just dancing and we should let them be.
They're not stripping at this spot, which is sort of beside the point, I'm sure. The problem with the club Gioia fought to shut down was that there were SHOOTINGS and drug dealing there, not boobies. If there's actual illegal behavior here, then sure. Raid the joint. But as far as I can tell, this is just daggering, which may seem distasteful to some, but if they're abiding by the law and being quiet outside, I don't see a real problem.
Jeremy, I do have a question. What do you like strippers for? I mean don't you think it's such a tease since you're not supposed to be touching them? Just curious.
Jeremy, read the post again. There is an ad stating that "exotic dancers" (aka strippers) will be performing on premises.
What do I like about strippers? The fact that I *can't* touch them, if that makes any sense. The tease is what most men are there for. Men actually *like* the tease. Look, I'm married. I see a hot chick in her birthday suit all the time, but what's sexy about stripping isn't the nudity, it's the clothing. It's what you can't do and don't see that's sexy. I don't want to get into Brechtian alienation and the power of the unseen, but it's important for fantasy that some things remain untouchable. I don't usually go; as a matter of fact, almost never. That's because I have neither the time nor the money to be throwing dollar bills into some broad's thong. But that's not to say that I don't appreciate the frisson of doing so.
Fine, exotic dancers - whatever. I don't particularly care as long as they follow the law and zoning. It's harder to close down a place once it's running than it is to prevent its opening. And if they're running it according to law, then whatevs. I'm not going to judge them based on one out-of-context clip and a lurid poster.
But don't you think guys would be better off spending time, energy and money on a girl who actually gives a crap about them instead of these girls in a strip club.
Another issue I have with these places is that these girls are often abused, on drugs and some are forced to be there. Doesn't that bug you?
"But don't you think guys would be better off spending time, energy and money on a girl who actually gives a crap about them instead of these girls in a strip club." Clearly you're a female, or you wouldn't even need to ask this question. Men aren't turned on by caring and loving, frankly. I mean, we like it, but males are evolutionarily programmed to prefer variety. A strip club is a way to engage that fantasy in a way that's safer than, say, promiscuity.
"Another issue I have with these places is that these girls are often abused, on drugs and some are forced to be there. Doesn't that bug you?" An issue I have with Churches is that child sexual abuse happens there. I'm not going to shut down churches. As for "often," I don't know. I know plenty of exotic dancers who don't even drink, and not because they're alcoholics. Have you been to a strip club? The power relationship isn't what you think it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against strip clubs entirely. I just think married men really have no place there. I've no problem with young, college-aged guys, for instance going there. I'll bet it's kinda fun. But married, older guys? Kinda lame, wouldn't you say? Don't get me wrong, you are NOT old by any means. But is it the kind of thing that you keep from your wife or you tell her openly "I'm going to a strip club tonight?"
Have I ever been to one? No. But heard about what goes on inside. As I said before, a married guy has no place there. You prabably think I'm a total square but that's how I feel.
You make me laugh, Italian Girl. Are you married? My guess is no. If strip clubs catered to only young single men, they'd be closed within weeks.
Yes, my wife knows I've been. And she's probably more concerned about the money it costs than any tail being shaken in my face. And yes, if there's a bachelor party or something I tell her where I'm going.
Don't idealize marriage too much; it's a great way to get unhappy or divorced.
I hope what I said wasn't offensive.
I guess what really bothers me is the fact guys would WANT to go to a strip club. I feel like it's almost a slight against me if my husband were to go. Like he's not satisfied with me, if that makes any sense. You gave a very good explanation before about why they go. But I guess since I'm not a guy, I'll never get it.
No, you didn't offend me. You just sounded a little naive and small-c-catholic in your sensibilities. I've heard that "they should put the energy into their wives" thing on every womens' daytime talk show like, ever. Women don't understand that sexual energy in men isn't a zero-sum game. As a matter of fact, it's the opposite - a chained man is a droopy man. Some women even prefer that a man gets his fire stoked at one of these places and brings it home to her.
"Some women even prefer that a man gets his fire stoked at one of these places and brings it home to her."
WOW! That would never be me.
You make a strong case from a guy's perspective. Maybe I'll come back as a man in my next life.
What's a small-c-catholic?
It sort of means universal. Sometimes connotes a rigidity applied to all when meant for some.
It was good talking to you, Jeremy. Nice talking to someone who isn't attacking me for a change. Have a good one!
George Can now join wade, you are officially a tool as well
what the hell are you talking about, dude?
"What's a small-c-catholic?"
Hey schmuck, ever here of a dictionary?
www.nra.org
I'm sure she has, but here's a definition you might like to find in one:
hear: (v) to perceive (sound) via the auditory sense.
here: (n,adj,adv) the present location; this place.
Live by the dictionary, die by the dictionary.
You see Jeremy. This blog is loaded with cyberbullies. Georgie is definitely one of them. Something tells me that in person he'd be a chickenshit.
Well, "bullying" and "chopsbusting" are neighbors. Don't visit the wrong address.
Hawkeye, you past the test.
psst... georgie. you forgot:
www.nra.org
www.aynrand.org
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