Thursday, April 2, 2009

Day laborers becoming homeless

From City Limits:

Queens resident Roberto Garcia hasn’t been able to find regular work since autumn, when he was laid off by a contractor. Instead of standing in an unemployment line, he stands at a day laborer hiring site. Like thousands of other workers in New York City, Garcia is undocumented – but that didn't keep him from receiving steady work before the economy sank. Now, his career in an underground economy is mirrored by unemployment in the shadows.

While last week the city’s official unemployment rate reached a troubling 8.1 percent, indicators suggest that the population without working papers is faring even worse. The desperation can be particularly felt at day laborer sites in Woodside, Queens where Garcia stands with dozens of others competing for low-skilled jobs in construction, carpentry, moving and cleaning. They used to get picked up for day jobs – but now they just keep waiting. The lack of work has led some to become homeless.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

Canary in the coal mine.

Anonymous said...

homeless how about going back home to their country? they're here illegally and not paying taxes and we better not feeling sorry and wanting to put them up.

i say GO HOME and leave the real work to the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Anonymous said...

Garcia is undocumented – in an underground economy is mirrored by unemployment in the shadows.

Undocumented? Illegal is the correct term - give this man a locked cell and send his country of origin a housing invoice.

There is a shortage of jobs and even if illegals are seeking low level skill jobs - they are not legally qualified to be offerred or accept employment in this country - he is stealing employment from any citizen / legal alien who may qualify for the same job. This is not a difficult concept to grasp - note that Mexico is currently in chaos - out of control with drug lords ruling the roost and extending it's reach in the US through illegal folks here in Queens whom are desperate to do anything - violence could be at our doorsteps on command.

Missing Foundation said...

I love how people take advantage of the American's ingorance of other cultures and nations.

We see a downturn, and the recieved wisdom is 'aw shucks, now they have to go home.'

Morons.

Go home to what? A 120 sq ft hut with a dirt floor? Non-existant work? A coutry whose economy fell off a cliff now that remittances that was propping it up has vanished? A place with no health care or safety net?

You must think they are a bunch of midwestern kids ready to return to Youngstown cause they can't make it in the big city.

We are about to get a flood of undocumented desperate people. Thank the democratic machine for that.

Miles Mullin said...

Homeless, so now they will trudge back 2000 miles homeward? Ride the rails to the Rio Grande like a hobo?

No, I do not think so.

Instead of 10 guys sleeping in two shifts in a 5 room railroad flat you will get 15 guys sleeping in three.

And it would still be a big improvement from where they came.

Anonymous said...

No matter how you feel about illegal aliens there is something very sick about people who have built fine homes for other people to have nowhere to lay their heads.

Greed is a sickness in America.

Anonymous said...

Too bad, so sad.

If we can send reporters out to speak to them, how about sending immigration out to round 'em up and deport them? We don't need homeless illegals hanging around. Sending him home to his dirt floored hut? Oh well. Not my problem. However it is my problem when they're hanging around on street corners in my neighborhood with no job and no money, and it's a problem I don't want.

Taxpayer said...

Moron Anonymous said:
"No matter how you feel about illegal aliens there is something very sick about people who have built fine homes for other people to have nowhere to lay their heads.

Greed is a sickness in America."

- - - - - -

So, it's greed to have a job, work hard, have a family that is fed and clothed and schooled, and put a roof over their head?

All while some lazy, ignorant lout in some other country who has no interest in improving himself or that country, rages on about our culture and work ethic?

And then decides to break into our land like a thief to take jobs from legal immigrants who came here first and adopted the culture and work ethic?

Or who takes jobs and food off the table from citizens here who are minorities?

And I'm supposed to now be shamed that he is now jobless, homeless and hungry? That will NEVER happen.

Let the thief walk back home and fix his country. Join a revolution and toss out the cruel oppressors. Our success did not come as a result of his ignorant, lazy, failure.

His failure came about because he is ignorant and lazy and cares for nobody else beyond himself.

Artful Dodd-ger said...

Damn, there might be red meat in Queens after all!

Wade Nichols said...

"Asteroid to Strike Earth Tomorrow, Killing All Humans - Day Laborers and Minorities Will Be Impacted Most" - See page 2 of NY Times

italian girl said...

Homeless???
These people are not homeless. They have homes.....in their own country. Maybe the city can organize buses or other travel to get these people out of here.

It's a matter of time before they begin breaking into our homes and stealing our cars or worse. I'm already hearing about pushin robberies in my area usually targeting the McMansions.

Boy, people arund here are going to be sorry they ever tried to be big shots by building those monstrosities. Most of them stand out like sore thumbs. So of course, if you're starving and need money who would you rob? The most lavish, luxurious home on the block makes sense.

Anonymous said...

They are day LABORERS, not lazy, good for nothings.

Futhermore, we have ample prove that many "hard-working" millionaires were working hard to steal the teeth from our heads, see Bernie Madoff, the mini-Madoffs, the lawyer who sank his entire firm by brazenly issuing and selling promissary notes on the accounts of both client and non-client companies etc.

Do you really believe that we have a shortage of greed in America? Why is it more shameful to do hard, dirty work for low pay then to sit with nice clean fingernails and rob people.

Yes, greed is a sickness in America, and these atrocious hard times may be the castor oil shoved down our throats to provide the cure.

Lino said...

The majority of Mexicans here in the northeast are from Puebla, you find that many settle in areas where there relatives from back home live.

Many have worked in other areas of this country and will simply move-on now that prospects are drying up here.

Most of the Mexicans and other Latin Americans that I have known from the restaurant business plan on staying here 7-10 years then returning home.

What they are doing by coming here is not much different than when a young American from a poor background enlists in the military and spends years away from his/her folks, with the goal of bettering their future.

These are Mexican Indians who were born in a poor, corrupt country next to a very rich one. They are doing what they can with the cards they were dealt. They simply want to work.

Try not to hate them.

Wade Nichols said...

Futhermore, we have ample prove that many "hard-working" millionaires were working hard to steal the teeth from our heads, see Bernie Madoff, the mini-Madoffs

You're obviously intellectually lazy, and using the example of Madoff to taint everyone else involved in finance, works on Wall Street, is a millionaire, etc. etc.

How do you think most people became millionaires? Did they ALL just sit back, and "steal" it?

Most of these people took risks, and worked 15 hour days, 7 days a week, to get where they are today. Madoff is the exception, not the rule.

You can play your games and try to taint all rich people by holding up Madoff as an example. I can also play your game and provide links to various articles about illegal aliens who've robbed, raped, murdered, and killed people by driving drunk.

But of course, according to you, if I do so, that's prima facie evidence of my "racism".

Do you really believe that we have a shortage of greed in America? Why is it more shameful to do hard, dirty work for low pay then to sit with nice clean fingernails and rob people.

You obviously believe that despite all of this country's faults, it's still the best place to be, or else you wouldn't be here. Either put up, and move to Zimbabwe, or stop your bitching.

Do you believe that people living in the third world are all "noble savages", all enlightened people with some sort of magical inner wisdom that comes about from living in poverty? Are they all like Bagger Vance, and Whoopi Goldberg's character in Star Trek - they all spout out bits of wisdom and knowledge that would enlighten us all?

Yes, greed is a sickness in America

It's a sickness around the world.

Do you think that people in India sit around all day on a mountain top underneath a tree in the lotus position and contemplate their navel? Or maybe they dream up ways to screw other people just like they do in every other country?

Wade Nichols said...

These are Mexican Indians who were born in a poor, corrupt country next to a very rich one. They are doing what they can with the cards they were dealt. They simply want to work.

They need to stay in their own country, and work for change there, not come to the U.S. and change our country.

Mexico's gaping chasm between rich and poor is not my problem, nor is it anyone else's in this country. If Mexico can't provide proper jobs for it's citizens, or ensure that income is distributed more equitably, it's not my concern. It's a problem for Mexico's ruling class to deal with. If they choose not to, the poor people should rise up and hang them from lamp posts.

It's not the job of the United States to serve as a giant social welfare agency for Mexico's problems.

Don't try and play your "white guilt" games with me - I don't suffer from that white liberal disease.

italian girl said...

Hey! I'm a Liberal and completely agree with all of your points. I would love to see every illegal get lost.
How did it become so acceptable that the U.S. has become the solution to Mexico's economic problems?

Lino said...

"Don't try and play your "white guilt" games with me - I don't suffer from that white liberal disease."

I am a WASP. I don't have -any- guilt, my fore bearers built this country.

What I do have is a heart and obviously alot more experience than you in this area.

Save the Hannity-isms for WABC..

Lino said...

" italian girl said...

Hey! I'm a Liberal and completely agree with all of your points. I would love to see every illegal get lost.
How did it become so acceptable that the U.S. has become the solution to Mexico's economic problems?"

Well there has always been a desire on the part of the business interests here to undermine labor costs, immigrants have provided the fodder.

Why do you think that fraud Ronald Regan signed the amnesty bill in Dec 1986? It was in response to anti-union/worker interests' goals, and I can tell you from personal experience that it turned the trickle into a flood in just two years time.

Just taking the restaurant industry as an example, when I got involved there in fall 1985 most kitchen and support staff were black or Caribbean Hispanic -mostly PR's by 1990 they were all gone.

The Latinos that replaced them were considered more reliable had no "attitude" and ofcourse would put up with more boss bs.

As i have said before, these people will move-on if they are not hired.

Wade Nichols said...

What I do have is a heart and obviously alot more experience than you in this area.

A bleeding heart at that. You're more concerned with displaying your morally superior peacock feathers. Deep down inside, you don't really give a damn for Mexicans or any other illegal aliens. When it comes down to it, you're probably scared of dealing with black Americans - you're more comfortable with "polite brown people". Also, you probably despise working class white people, and championing the cause of "day laborers" is an outlet for this. I know exactly who you are.

Save the Hannity-isms for WABC..

I don't listen to the radio. I don't watch television either, I watch 3 movies a week from Netflix. I vaguely know who Hannity is, and I've never listened to Limbaugh, nor read any of his books.

Those guys bore me, as do smug white jerks such as you.

italian girl said...

"As i have said before, these people will move-on if they are not hired."

And where will they go? Certainly not back to Mexico. They will likely go to another U.S. city and drain prescious resources over there.
We can't afford these people any more. Hospitals are closing everywhere and city agencies will be laying off staff. For what? So we can keep these free loaders here. We need to take care of our own. In prosperous times, who cares? But right now, we are like a sinking ship. And when a ship is sinking the last thing you want is more people on that ship weighing it down.

Lino said...

"When it comes down to it, you're probably scared of dealing with black Americans'

I'll have you know that I am a graduate of Julia Richman High School :-)

You really are an ill-informed fool and prove it with every diatribe.

The very people who manipulate your fears and prejudices are the ones quietly serving the business interests by ignoring the immigration issue. types like you are just too stupid to see beyond their comfort zone.

"I watch 3 movies a week from Netflix"

Let me guess. Rambo and "action" flicks?

"I vaguely know who Hannity is, and I've never listened to Limbaugh."

Oh please. that one isn't even worth a laugh.

Templar said...

italian girl said...
"And where will they go? Certainly not back to Mexico. They will likely go to another U.S. city and drain prescious resources over there."

And what precious resources would those be? The soap used to clean dishes in a restaraunt? The landscaping tools like leaf blowers that are given to them by temporary employers? Or maybe the paintbrush used to do a job that they're getting payed a pittance.

What we've been seeing for a long time is that these individuals are doing jobs that the average american does not want to do, and private self employers who want to keep operating costs down are using them as a sort of psuedo out sourcing. I'm not defending them in any way but I think its pointless to gripe and bitch and moan about sending people to where they came from and blah blah.

If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at companies like Dell who outsourced potential well paying jobs to India.

The Man With No Name said...

I am a WASP. I don't have -any- guilt, my fore bearers built this country.

What I do have is a heart and obviously alot more experience than you in this area.
-----------

Don't get into a pissing match with me sonny, but lets just say you have not cornered that soapbox -- by any stretch of the imagination.

The creation of permanent underclass based on ethnicity, a disdain for hard work ('they do jobs no American will do crap'), and the exploitation of people in employment or lodging is about as un-American as one can get and poses dangers to our country's ethos, its spirit, its very view of itself.

When you spout, remember these 3 easy points:

1. Wade is correct. We cannot solve the problems of the world. There are too many people to take everyone in.

2. By taking the best and brightest, we condemn the rest of the world to permanent second stringer status.

3. The 60s idealism of opening borders has long given way to an excuse to cynically exploit.

We have fallen back on the days of Boss Tweed, sweat shops, and basement dwellings.

italian girl said...

"And what precious resources would those be? The soap used to clean dishes in a restaraunt? The landscaping tools like leaf blowers that are given to them by temporary employers? Or maybe the paintbrush used to do a job that they're getting payed a pittance"

Uh, the very first thing that comes to mind is the children of all these illegals in our schools. Extra bodies requires extra teachers. Secondly, they don't speak English instantly qualifying them for ESL instruction - more teachers necessary. Next a number of them have behavioral problems - more guidance counselors. I could go on and on. Catch my drift?

What about the free medical care they enjoy in our ER's? Who pays for that? Certainly not them.
What about all the extra cops necessary to police their disruptive asses in our neighborhoods? What about the extra firefighters needed for all of these extra people crammed into their tiny illegal apartments, some of which end up being on the news because of a fire killing them all? I could go on and on.....

Doug said...

Awww, I feel so bad for the ILLEGAL immigrants that cannot find work. Too friggin' bad. Round them up and send them all back to where they came from. They are a drain on our economy, our society and our quality of life.

Wade Nichols said...

You really are an ill-informed fool and prove it with every diatribe.

Thank you! You're so kind! You really do have a heart!

The very people who manipulate your fears and prejudices are the ones quietly serving the business interests by ignoring the immigration issue.

Both political parties manipulate the public, and serve their own interests, not the interests of the American people. Bush, Obama, Clinton, all the same.....

Let me guess. Rambo and "action" flicks?

Wow! How'd you know? I love to watch those Hollywood films that show white guys blowing away the bad foreigners such as Arab terrorists and Mexican drug dealers. Oh, wait a minute! I forgot! Hollywood doesn't make movies like that! The bad guys are almost always "Serbian terrorists" or "Russian drug trafficers", I wonder why??

But seriously, yes, I do watch Rambo type action films such as: Alfred Hitchcock's "I Confess"; and the documentary "Man On Wire". I did watch "The Departed" on Saturday, so that will probably make you happy and confirm your worst stereotype.

The creation of permanent underclass based on ethnicity, a disdain for hard work ('they do jobs no American will do crap'), and the exploitation of people in employment or lodging is about as un-American as one can get and poses dangers to our country's ethos, its spirit, its very view of itself.

Couldn't agree more. We already have a large underclass of the descendents of those who were forcibly taken from Africa. We don't need to create another underclass in this country, of yet another racial/ethnic group, and create even more tensions. For further reference, see: Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Malaysia, India, etc. etc.

By taking the best and brightest, we condemn the rest of the world to permanent second stringer status.

Agreed again. This has been well documented. I read an article a while ago about how all the top nurses from the African country of Malawi have all left to go work in the U.K. The result - the health care system in Malawi is a shambles.

Anonymous said...

Every nation has borders- I really don't understand why the US is expected the be the only country without them.

julia said...

ive got one word for you

politicians

Wade Nichols said...

Every nation has borders- I really don't understand why the US is expected the be the only country without them.

Because everyone holds the United States to ridiculous Utopian-like standards that no other country on earth will ever attain.

Mexico treats illegals from Guatemala FAR worse than illegal Mexicans are treated in the U.S. (Google it - if you look hard enough, you'll find a few stories) Do we ever hear much about this? No! Why? Because even the supporters of illegal immigration in the U.S. aren't THAT stupid. They suffer from the bigotry of low expectations - they don't expect much from Mexico, but they want to hold the U.S. to standards that only God himself could ever achieve.

Anonymous said...

Too bad it hits home when I say Greed is a sickness in America. I never condemned all wealth--only ill-gotten gains.

There is an old saying, "If the shoe fits wear it." People who are too defensive usually have something to be defensive about.

Furthermore, while we are tormenting the poorest of the poor, lets keep in mind that plenty of people made big bucks off them. Perhaps fines would be an appropriate way to recoup some of the cost of deporting the illegals.

Pacer said...

Wade Nichols said:
"It's a problem for Mexico's ruling class to deal with. If they choose not to, the poor people should rise up and hang them from lamp posts."

Well, yes. But every time a group of poor people has tried to do that in Latin America-- or even revolution through peaceful means-- our own government has moved in to crush them. Guatemala 1954, Chile 1973, Nicaragua 1981, etc. It's not as if the USA is entirely innocent of the fact that the political and economic state of these countries is chronically corrupt.

Anonymous said...

We're a nation of cowards regarding race because people see discussions like this one that go nowhere and wonder what's the point.

Anonymous said...

Conversations about illegal aliens are a b@th because we are trying to balance legitimate concerns of American born labor, national security, health care issues and all other resource allocation issues against the need for fairness, justice and compassion for the impoverished, exploited and abused.

I am the daughter of an American born mother and a legal immigrant father. I can become very schizophrenic on this issue because I can see both sides.

Sometimes I see in some of these screeds real bigotry and contempt for the labor of the hands. Many of us have good lives because of our ditch-digging ancestors and I will never stand to hear people who do manual labor denounced as "Lazy."

Wade Nichols said...

We're a nation of cowards regarding race because people see discussions like this one that go nowhere and wonder what's the point.

Thank you, Attorney General Eric Holder, for that comment. I didn't realize that our AG reads Queens Crap. Maybe I'd better watch what I write here, or else I'll be heading to one of those Obama re-education camps that I've been hearing about.

There's a reason why people (mainly whites) don't discuss race openly. If you don't know the answer, then you're not using your brain.

Anonymous said...

+1 for the Anon who can empathize with those who do manual labor.

On a much more somber note:

You're obviously intellectually lazy, and using the example of Madoff to taint everyone else involved in finance... is a millionaire, etc. etc.... Most of these people took risks, and worked 15 hour days, 7 days a week, to get where they are today. Madoff is the exception, not the rule.

And you're equally disingenuous in stating that Madoff is the exception. Sure, there may only be a few really quote-unquote Bad Eggs without human emotion like Madoff, but there are equally few Good Eggs, and most of them do indeed make their millions through hard work and technical invention, almost by accident. The vast majority are driven by greed and most assuredly NOT working 7 days a week as you suggest. They golf, and sail, and appear at gala events with all the other socialites.

Developers of real estate get bashed on this blog all the time for putting profits before people, yet you'd have us believe that the Wizards of Theoretical Money and Paper Profits in the world of finance constitute a network of philanthropies. Ha!

Snake Plissskin said...

the need for fairness, justice and compassion for the impoverished, exploited and abused.
-----------

Hah? Wha?

Excactly how does the 25 day laborers liotering on my corner who get free social services paid by my taxes, don't help the local economy, and get all the sympathy from my politicans, have to do with that statement?

Nothing.

Wade Nichols said...

The vast majority are driven by greed and most assuredly NOT working 7 days a week as you suggest. They golf, and sail, and appear at gala events with all the other socialites.

The vast majority of millionaires in this country are unassuming people. They don't live in townhouses in Manhattan, nor do they drive Maybachs. Again, you're cherry picking the bad examples that you see in the media. Stop watching 6 hours of TV every day, and read a damn book. Start with "The Millionaire Next Door", and you'll learn what the traits of most of the wealthy really are. Paris Hilton, Madoff, P-Diddy, Jay Z, Nicole Ritchie, Kim Kardashian, etc. etc. represent "man bites dog" stories that the media love to feed to rubes like you who eat this crap up.

yet you'd have us believe that the Wizards of Theoretical Money and Paper Profits in the world of finance constitute a network of philanthropies. Ha!

So that $100 million donation to the NY Public Library by Stephen Schwarzman was just some sort of public relations ploy?

Perhaps. But as someone who uses both NYPL and Queens Library religiously, I'm glad that people like Schwarzman are around.

If you're really looking for a place with no social inequality, why not consider moving to North Korea? I hear it's quite lovely in the spring time.

Missing Foundation said...

The vast majority are driven by greed and most assuredly NOT working 7 days a week as you suggest. They golf, and sail, and appear at gala events with all the other socialites.

Developers of real estate get bashed on this blog all the time for putting profits before people, yet you'd have us believe that the Wizards of Theoretical Money and Paper Profits in the world of finance constitute a network of philanthropies.

--------

Well said, lad.

May I use this in my speaches?

(You hit the nail on the head with the great dirty secret of success:

you can put as many fishing lines out that you can, but in the final analysis, it just depends on luck to get the 'big one.')

Anonymous said...

I love how the real estate ad sucking media handles illegals

hang out on a street corner
(shape up hall)

health care (lack of documentation limits choices)

can't handle the rent
(a tweeded 'need' awaiting fulfillment with 'affordable housing')

etc etc etc

now as to the other end of the coin? you are archie bunkers worthy of scorn (well just a touch of pathos for a dinosaur)

Anonymous said...

Illegal=Criminal. These illegals are all criminals. They ignore our laws and reap the benefits of free health care, which taxpayers have to pay for. If they all left, we wouldn't be in the financial bind that we are in. Send them all home. I only have compassion for our citizens. If they were gone, the average Joe wouldn't have to pay such high taxes. I'm so done with this topic. Lawmakers and politicians, who are sworn to uphold the law, turn a blind eye to the illegal alien situation. It's corrupt and sinful. Let them go back to their own countries and try to make it better for their people there. Even when they make money here, they sent it back "home." They contribute nothing to our country.

italian girl said...

No. They contribute something - cheap labor for wealthy creeps.

And that's the reason they will always be around. You can't pay top dollar for your maid or nanny when you need money for your summer home in the Hamptons.

Silly.

Capitalist said...

Here is the crux of the issue though.. if we decide to "round 'em up and send 'em home," how much money do you think this will cost? And when people start running from the bounty hunters, how do you find every single last illegal in the vast and empty backwoods of US? And for what, for them to just come right back?

Seeing how our government just spent $1 trillion, i have a feeling we could use a couple extra tax dollars. I say, give them green cards and take 30% of their income, like the gov't does to me.

Another thought is, why not use this class of willing and able manual laborers to work manufacturing?? It is the same concept as outsourcing, but instead of taking the work to workers, bring the workers to the work. This will save corporations on the cost of shipping the goods they produce, save on capital investment (plenty of abandoned factories in the US), raise the quality of manufacturing (compared to goods produced in China), etc etc.

Create jobs, increase tax revenue, reduce national debt, reduce trade deficit... all good things here.

Wade Nichols said...

Here is the crux of the issue though..blah blah blah

You don't even have to do any of that nonsense. Simply enforce the existing laws, and crack down on employers who violate those laws. It has nothing to do with borders. Finland is a prosperous country relative to Russia, and shares a large border with Russia. Why doesn't Finland have a problem with illegal Russian workers? Because they have harsh penalties for Finnish companies that hire illegal workers. Simple as that. End of story.

Seeing how our government just spent $1 trillion, i have a feeling we could use a couple extra tax dollars. I say, give them green cards and take 30% of their income, like the gov't does to me.

And when they become citizens, what else happens? Many of them immediately qualify for: food stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, public assistance, welfare, and we've also added another couple million people to the grievance industry (otherwise known as affirmative action). Also, MOST people in this country don't pay a whole lot in income taxes. The bottom 50% of taxpayers pays an average of 3% of their income in taxes, not a whole lot. Now it looks like we have to spend another $1 trillion!

The government may take 30% of your income, but you obviously are making more than the average American.

Another thought is, why not use this class of willing and able manual laborers to work manufacturing??

What are we going to manufacture? There's very little that can be manufactured in the U.S. that's cost effective, and can compete with China. I agree with the concept, but wish I knew the answer what could be made in the U.S. If I knew, I'd be sitting by the pool with two 19-year old supermodels feeding me grapes.

Miles Mullin said...

Damn you got to love the Krappie Krew, the bane of hacks.

Anonymous said...

THEY ARE HERE ILLEGAL, GET THE POINT! WORKING WITHOUT PAYING TAXES, GETTING FREE MEDICAL WHICH WE DON'T. WHEN THEY GET A COLD THEY FLOOD TO E.R SO THEY CAN BILL THE STATE.

Anonymous said...

Stop watching 6 hours of TV every day, and read a damn book...

That's your idea of logic... I disagree with you, therefore I watch 6 hours of TV per day?
Nope, nowhere near that. And I "read a damn book" probably as often as you. I just don't take nearly as sympathetic a view as you toward the ├╝ber-privileged in our society.

The bottom 50% of taxpayers pays an average of 3% of their income in taxes

Mmmm... average Americans aren't very good with numbers, huh?
The bottom 50% may collectively pay 3% of total income tax, but if the lowest bracket is 10% or 11% there's no way the bottom 50% pays "an average of 3%" in taxes.

...If I knew, I'd be sitting by the pool with two 19-year old supermodels feeding me grapes.

Yeah, just like all those other hard-working Average Joe "millionaires next door." You just sabotaged your own argument.

Capitalist said...

Simply enforce the existing laws, and crack down on employers who violate those laws.

This is a reasonable strategy.

And when they become citizens, what else happens?

My suggestion is to award Resident Alien status, not full US citizenship.


Many of them immediately qualify for: food stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, public assistance, welfare

This can be regulated. For Medicare benefits, permanent resident aliens need to have lived in the US for 5 continuous years. Just because you let somebody live in this country and pay taxes doesn't mean you are entitled to rights of a country. You need to earn those.

The bottom 50% of taxpayers pays an average of 3% of their income in taxes, not a whole lot. Now it looks like we have to spend another $1 trillion!

I think at this point, we need as much tax and social security income as we can get. A dollar store doesn't turn away a sale of only one item. It adds up.

What are we going to manufacture? There's very little that can be manufactured in the U.S. that's cost effective, and can compete with China.

What is cheaper in China is labor.

What is more expensive in China is developing their infrastructure, building facilities, shipping overseas, and overseeing quality.

The issue, now, is the standard of pay in the US. The average UAW worker used to earn over $60/hr including benefits. That, we cannot compete against. This is benchmark pay your average American Joe has in his head.

However, your illegal immigrant day worker who has just been granted resident alien status is now qualified for legal work in the US. What are the going day rates these days? Pay them 5% more than that and they are happy bc their work is now legal and consistent.

Once you have workers who are happy with competitive global manufacturing wages, Federal, State, and City governments are happy bc they can start collecting their taxes.

Floor Four, Inc said...

THEY ARE HERE ILLEGAL, GET THE POINT! WORKING WITHOUT PAYING TAXES, GETTING FREE MEDICAL WHICH WE DON'T. WHEN THEY GET A COLD THEY FLOOD TO E.R SO THEY CAN BILL THE STATE.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion but yelling about a problem w/o suggesting a coherent solution is also a problem.

Wade Nichols said...

Mmmm... average Americans aren't very good with numbers, huh?

You're a perfect example, because you're obviously not very good with numbers yourself.

The bottom 50% may collectively pay 3% of total income tax, but if the lowest bracket is 10% or 11% there's no way the bottom 50% pays "an average of 3%" in taxes.

Don't believe me? See here:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/
show/250.html

That's the non partisan Tax Foundation. The data comes from the IRS.

Have you ever heard of the marginal tax rate or the effective tax rate? Probably not. You probably have no idea what I'm even talking about.

Yeah, just like all those other hard-working Average Joe "millionaires next door." You just sabotaged your own argument.

Hardly. You're sitting here reading this nonsense, so you're working just as hard as I am. But you're learning a thing or two, at least via osmosis.


To Capitalist:

Thoughtful answers. I can respect a debate with a reasonable person.

linda said...

illegals flood woodside and is moving up towards maspeth soon. they are here illegal and hanging out all day on corners at one time used to be illegal, why doesn't anyone stop this from going on? as long as america keeps allowing them to break the law it will continue. I'm sorry they don't pay taxes, so they should be able to afford to go to the doctors, and not expect us to p/u the tab. americans are losing there jobs and paying cobra, which i am and let me tell you it's not cheap. usa needs to ship them home and focus more on the american people who are suffering.

Artfull Dodd-ger said...

"The Millionaire Next Door"

hahahahahahehehehehehehohohoh

sure

linda said...

who cares, tell them to go home. sick of them hanging around on all the corners. they need to go home NOW! you think new york is bad, when i dropped off my son in washington for college, i couldn't believe how many were standing around and they looked at me like i didn't belong. our NEW president has to start forcing them out and then focus on rebuilding AMERICA, and it should start with the glass on the world trade or freedom tower, but it should be american company only not made in china. so the hell with the illegals becoming homeless and importing from overseas, AMERICAN ONLY THANK YOU.
and lets not forget about all the AMERICANS THAT ARE NOW HOMELESS AFTER LOSING THEIR HOMES. HELP THEM FIRST.

Anonymous said...

Don't believe me? See here:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/
show/250.html


Okay, I'm man enough to acknowledge that you're correct in this case.
I guess with 13% of the US population living in poverty, it stands to reason that the lower half of earners might average out to something less than an 11% tax rate.

Hardly. You're sitting here reading this nonsense, so you're working just as hard as I am.

Uh... not MY point, not YOUR point, and you know it. You preach the hardworking good-eggedness of the upper crust socioeconomic stratum, yet you yourself aspire to lazy days poolside, bedecked with grape-dangling maidens. Most millionaires, like you, measure their value in the world by the amount of money they make and the amount they can spend. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anonymous said...

I don't even think that the problem with millionaires is whether they work hard, but what they are working hard at.

The millionaires of the Industrial Revolution could be real B@st@rds, but they left behind functioning industries and jobs for the workers.

They electrified cities, created transportation networks, bankrolled many useful inventions.

Today's crop has brought us the financial meltdown and taxpayers bailing out private financial institutions.

An excellent take on what is going on can be found in Thomas Wolfe's, "Bonfire of the Vanities," where the bond trader is unable to go to his child's school for show and tell because he cannot describe for the children what he does for a living.

Wade Nichols said...

You preach the hardworking good-eggedness of the upper crust socioeconomic stratum, yet you yourself aspire to lazy days poolside, bedecked with grape-dangling maidens......blah blah blah....

If you're so foolish to take my comments that were obviously sarcastic in nature, and extrapolate them to represent the traits of EVERY wealthy person in this country, then you are indeed quite the foolish idiot.

You obviously again show your mathematical ignorance, and most likely failed elementary statistics.

linda said...

Attended a meeting tonight and the city is going to have a WORKSHOP for the day laborers tomorrow at our tax expense. I have to pay out of my ass for cobra, and child health plus i have to pay for, but the day laborers who come here ILLEGAL have more rights than me. If they came here with the proper channels i wouldn't be complaining, hello WORK VISA... my mother came over here from poland the legal way, as so many others. The city is broke but we have money for the illegals to have a workshop, come on already don't you see what is going on?? Someone comment they stay 7 to 10 years and then go back, yeah after they fucked OUR COUNTRY out of all those taxes. they don't pay taxes, they flood the E.R. for free medical and they get work shops. HEY MAYOR BLOOMASS HAVE WORK SHOPS FOR THE AMERICAN FAMILIES WHO CAN'T FIND WORK, DUMB ASS.

Anonymous said...

What the hell!!!! Since when is it a you- me issue? These are people, humans! They are up at the crack of dawwn everyday working 7 days a week. Harder than most citizens i know! Please they deserve to be respected. Every human has a right to shelter, food, and health. Regardless as to where they were born. Some of us are just fortunate we were dealt the hands which we were to be American. GOD looks down on our selfish, indifferent attitudes to fellow people. It is not about entitlement, never look down on the next man. So many of us are now feeling this economic downturn- look at our own tent cities popping up in the U.S. We have Americans living like 3rd world countries. What do you say to them in their dire circumstances, "Go back to where you came from?"

Anonymous said...

You obviously again show your mathematical ignorance, and most likely failed elementary statistics.

My god, Wade. Once you're up on your high horse you lose all sense of control.
Please show me where I have demonstrated mathematical ignorance. I merely wasn't aware of one statistic - those factoids and trivia you're so proud of showing off in lieu of good reasoning skills.