From the Daily News:Stop-and-frisk has removed thousands of guns from the city’s streets — but the NYPD detained millions of innocent New Yorkers to find them.
A Columbia law professor testified Wednesday that just one gun was recovered for every thousand people stopped from 2004 through June 30, 2012.
“The NYPD hit rate is far less than what you would achieve by chance,” Jeffrey Fagan said in Manhattan Federal Court.
Testifying in the federal class-action lawsuit against the city and the NYPD’s controversial tactic, Fagan said his analysis of paperwork from 4.4 million stops found guns were confiscated at a rate of roughly one-tenth of 1 percent, or 5,940 firearms.
Knives and other contraband were nabbed in about 1.5% of stops, taking 66,000 weapons off the street, the professor said.
And 12% of the 4.4 million stops during that time period — roughly 528,000 — led to an actual arrest or a summons, Fagan said.
City Councilwoman Margaret Chin speaks as New York City women call on the NYPD to abandon the discriminatory procedure that a study shows yields few results.
And the rest were “just let go?” asked Federal Judge Shira Scheindlin.
“Yes, your honor,” Fagan replied.
19 comments:
This never would have happened in the late 1940s and 1950s. WWII vets would have revolted.
If the Columbia professor is correct, that means that more than 1 out of every 1000 people in this city is carrying a gun illegally.
A frightening thought indeed, as you consider how many people you pass every day on the street, bus, and subway.
No, because the stops are concentrated in neighborhoods that you probably don't frequent.
Let's get things straight about the difference between a pistol and a gun.
"This is my pistol. This is my gun.
One is for robbing folks. The other one is for fun"!
I recall a published estimate (1970s?) that 1 out of 7 New Yorkers carried guns.
As I sat in a bus one day...counting off each group of 7 passengers that were boarding.
It was a frightening prospect to figure out which one of the 7 was packing heat (legally or illegally).
The perfect storm is brewing for this city to slide right back to the late 80s/early 90s.
The facts are these...
"In 2011, the latest year for which sentencing statistics are available, fewer than half the defendants who had been arrested for illegal possession of a loaded gun in New York City received a state prison sentence, according to an analysis of criminal justice statistics by the mayor’s office.
In the Bronx, as few as 31 percent were imprisoned. In Brooklyn the rate was 41 percent; in Staten Island it was 47 percent; in Manhattan it was 68 percent; and in Queens it was 76 percent.*
How about making sure all those caught with a loaded gun go to jail. No bail or ROR until their trial. Then the judge should sentence them to the minimum 3 years behind bars. No excuses, no mama crying for mercy, no reverend preaching how good the gun holder is, no nuthin!!
*This is from the January 21 issue of The NY Times.
This never would have happened in the late 1940s and 1950s. WWII vets would have revolted.
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There wasn't much of a need for a stop and frisk policy back in the 40's and 50's. The cops' hands weren't tied by bleeding heart policies like they are today, and justice and peace could normally be meted out by the mere presence of a cop walking down the street waving his stick. In addition, the WW II vets could hardly be compared to the generations of savage, feral youths and twentysomethings we have roaming our streets today.
The stops may occur and the illegal gun owners may live in areas which a lot of people don't frequent, but many come to a different borough for their daily business.
One of the counterarguments I've heard raised in support of "Stop, Question, and Frisk" to the issue of low gun turnout is that the tactic is effectively making sure those who do own illegal guns are less prone to carry them for fear of being stopped and searched. But that's a speculation from an absence, and it sets the strange position that the statistics need to be inverted. These people are in effect saying that the better we get at "Stop and Frisk," the higher the rate of false stops, and innocent harassments should be to reflect the increased deterrence.
Well, here's a fact that should unify people around public safety:
We currently have 34,500 officers on the beat. This is down from 40,800 in 2008. The city's population is only about 100,000 less now than in 2008. That's a 15.4% drop in the police force for about a 1.2% drop in population. People should be pressing the mayor and the City Council for why they have allowed the blue line to thin.
Exactly. Instead of stop and frisk, use real policework to solve crimes. Instead of handing out flyers for self-defense classes, increase the number of officers on patrol.
"It was a frightening prospect to figure out which one of the 7 was packing heat (legally or illegally)."
You have nothing to fear from people legally carrying guns. The mere fact they carry legally shows they live by the law.
The people that carry illegally don't care about the law and no matter how many guns laws get passed they will carry anyway. They are the ones to fear.
More gun laws only take guns away from honest folk.
"Stop and Frisk" doesn't take place in a vacuum. Knowing that there is a small chance that they will be stopped and arrested, some are leaving the guns at home.
Tell criminals that they are not at risk of being arrested for having a illegal gun as long as they conceal it well, and more people will carry guns.
Ooh...that felt good. grope me again!
Uh, fella...VERY FEW (besides law enforcement personnel) have carry permits for handguns in NYC.
They are 99 3/4% impossible to get.
Target-premises permits DO NOT entitle you to carry a pistol on your person on the streets.
You're taking SHIT! Most perps are packing illegally.
As far as not being scared of the legal carriers...I'm scared!
i.e.
Cops are notorious for lack of taking proper firearms safety precautions. There are only minimum requirements for police officers to go to the firing range.
A female cop once told me that she had to qualify only 3 times a year on the pistol range.
What does that mean?
A lot of cops couldn't hit the broadside of a barn!
Not to worry...they draw their 16 round service Glocks. Then it's "spray 'n pray" time...that they could hit a fleeing perp, without incurring any civilian collateral damage.
Welcome to "safe city".
What ever happened to the mandatory jail time of one year being imposed, if you got caught carrying an illegal handgun in NYC?
The trial lawyers associations must have objected.
The real problem is, that we have some very good laws on the books in New York City, but we don't seem to enforce them!
The Victorian era Sullivan Law, which forbade carrying guns was passed (in the1890s) with lax enforcement.
So NYC lawmakers decided to pass a new one (for political benefit) that isn't being enforced either.
If you are against stop and frisk, you don't live in a total shit hole neighborhood. You live where drug dealing, prostitution and money laundering are less than obvious.
If you don't look like a hoodlum, if your pants aren't falling below your crack and you don't scream obscenities at police you'll be fine. Stop standing on the same street corner every day selling crack or looking out for drug dealers or holding for drug dealers and you will not be stopped and frisked.
Stop and Frisk was effective at doing 3 things.
1) bagging kids who thought it was cool to be carrying around a weapon or drugs.
2) forcing guns off of gangsters and into communal hiding places.
3) alienating locals and undermining the good effects of community policing.
Suspend stop,question frisk in the 123,68,and 111 pcts. Also do it in the 67,73,75 pcts. Let's do this in July and August.........................
I was a cop for 20 years.Like many,I went to a private range to shoot monthly.istill go at least bi monthly and have been retired 9 years. I can assure the previous poster that not only could I hit the proverbial barn with my 5 shot revolver; I could hit him in his fat ass at 60 feet.................
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