Tuesday, March 2, 2010

Obama health plan will sock it to us

From CBS 2:

President Barack Obama's new health care plan really socks it to New York taxpayers and its bad news for residents of New Jersey and Connecticut, too.

The numbers are eye-popping. President Obama's plan to tax investment income to pay for his health care package would force New Yorkers to fork over an additional $4.8 billion in taxes on money they get from interest, dividends and other investments.

But here's the rub: a study by the Manhattan Institute finds that New Yorkers will pay 12 to 15 percent of all the funds raised by the new investment tax. New Jersey residents will pay 7 to 9 percent. That's nearly 25 percent of the entire tax.

The hit to area taxpayers is so staggering that experts wonder how our congressmen and senators can support it.

The question is so politically volatile that a number of congressmen didn't return CBS 2 HD's calls to see if they support the president's plan, chief among them Congressman Charles Rangel, head of the tax writing Ways and Means Committee.


Free Refills said...

I find it hard to get to get upset by the idea that expanded healthcare will be financed by a tax on Goldman Sachs fat cats.

Anonymous said...

So only Goldman Sachs fat cats have investment income?

georgetheatheist said...

All I know is, I'm getting my elective surgery this month before the whole system goes in the toilet. Please excuse my foot on your face.

"Bring out your dead" - Monty Python

Anonymous said...

"I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country and the least appearance of encroachment on those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil exceedingly. I now take up a resolution to do all that lies in my way for the service of my countrymen."
- Benjamin Franklin

Joe said...

You got that right George !
Get it done wile you still can get an experienced surgeon

They pass this shit all health care with be like military hospitals only staffed by tweeds and imported doctors.
Chop shops with triage's and hundreds of bunk beds. Get sick, get handed a number.

I personally know 2 doctors who are throwing in the towel if this passes.
They claim the government will require private doctors to treat anybody who walks through the door then try and collect payment from Uncle Sam

Lino said...

You all may as well face a fact: the government already pays for nearly 50% of healthcare for Americans.

I don't have to itemize the programs..you all know them and, some of the biggest critics, the ones calling "SOCIALISM" -are those benefiting from Medicare, SSI, etc.

Some of these posting here are retired teachers and other Civil Servants, THEY all have LIFETIME SOCIALIZED medical care...You know who you are.

Those of us who pay our own way here are being eaten alive by ever rising premiums. American spending power is being siphoned-off by this as is our competitiveness.

You might as well face facts here, some form of single payer -socialized- medical system along with drastic cost containment (tort reform etc) is essential or we will become slaves to one bloated sector of our economy.

Single Payer WILL happen -not now but within out lifetimes. The sooner we establish the framework, the better for all of us.

Anonymous said...

Bravo Mr Lino,truer words were never spoken. I'd like to see your words plastered on the front page of every newspaper in this great country of ours.There are many people who believe as we do but we are the silent majority.

Anonymous said...

Lino, you are a fool.

First you are totally non-responsive as to why 25% of this boodoggle should be paid for by two states.

Second if you think rich fat cats are the only one affected by hight taxes you are wrong. The plan is to raise money by:
-taxing medical devices and limiting tax-free medical “flex” spending accounts to $2,500.
-An excise tax would be levied on the “aggregate value” of health care benefits that exceed $8,500 for single people and $23,000 for families. The aggregate value is what you and your employer, combined, pay for your medical, dental and vision policies, plus any spending from your medical flex spending account. For most workers, that amount easily stretches into the thousands of dollars per year. The tax will hit plans widely used by middle-class employees even though Obama advisers like to say the tax is aimed at benefits enjoyed by the likes of Wall Street bankers. To avoid the 40 percent tax, workers and their employers would buy less coverage, resulting in more medical costs for the employees.
- New fees on health insurers and other health-related industries. This tax and others on drug makers and medical device manufacturers would increase the cost of a policy.

In short if you have coverage now expect to pay more, get less coverage and pay more taxes. Sounds like change we can all believe in.

I will work against any policician who supports this.

stinky said...

Congressman Charles Rangel, head of the tax writing Ways and Means Committee.

Anytime this guy has his hand in your pocket, your doomed. He can't stuff his pockets fast enough these days and now that his shaky ground is really rattling - watch out he may go out with a big present to us - a kick in the proverbial B***S as pay back for his demise on his way out of office.

Lino said...

To the "anon" calling me a "fool" -you're damn right!

I pay almost $4700/yr to some shit insurance co. for something that I have yet to use. I had a kidney stone last summer and payed cash at my doctor for an IVP to avoid a claim that might hike my premiums.

My two partners each have families, one pays $14.700/yr for three people, the other $16.790/yr for four. All are young and healthy. One has been informed that his rate will go up this year, so have I. Save the self-serving propaganda...we are already paying to make some exec's rich.

It IS going to be costly to finally implement universal one payer --thanks to the efforts of the AMA-insurance and their butt boys on Capitol Hill.

My brother-in-law is a Canadian doctor. He is well paid @ approx 150k/yr and has few worries compared to American doctors with their soaring malpractice premiums

If we had -fully- implemented a socialized medical plan that covers ALL Americans back when President Truman proposed it, we would have had a system of low cost or free medical training and non profit hospitals.

Thanks to the selfish efforts of the above mentioned parties, we have a patchwork of high-profit care and struggling public hospitals who must compete for labor and supplies against an entrenched oligarchy of profiteers.

Again, like it or not, there is no way out of this mess but a series of enactments that will ultimately result in a socialized system similar most other advanced nations.

Anonymous said...

If you think there is no universal health care in America, go to the ER at Elmhurst Hospital and take a good look at the people in the waiting room. Think about this scum next time you get a $600 bill for a couple of stitches done by a PA.

In the past, people worried about their illness when they were seriously ill. Now they have to worry about dealing with bureaucracy and getting socked with huge bills. Nobody wants to tell you upfront how much they will bill your insurace, even if the billing specialist is right there.

Be prepared for the entrance of third-world underqualified, underpaid doctors into the profession (and also teachers, firefighters, police officers). Soon, no sane person will have any incentive to become a doctor. Why choose years of stress, crushing debt that you'll be repaying most of your life, and to top it all: dealing with a bureaucratic national health insurance machine to squeeze out payments for procedures done on illegal immigrants?

It's high time for the federal government to susped all foreign military operations and redirect the military budget towards healthcare. It seems that military spending is the only one that has never had a budget cut. I will feel more secure if the government put an end to its imperialistic, interventionist agenda.

Anonymous said...

Oh look, a bunch of white people with a "fuck you, got mine" attitude. I can't wait until UHC is passed and your money is forcibly taken from you.

Go Obama!

Anonymous said...

Actually, here in NYC it's minorities, many of them illegal, who already got theirs, and it's paid for largely by whitey already.

Anyway, this is about NY and NJ paying more than any other state for the nation's health insurance plan, which you think will only affect "fat cats" but in reality will in turn affect all of us when the cost of everything goes up.

Anonymous said...

My neighbor, using a couple of illegal aliens, to do some construction work had to take one of them to the emergency room to check out a small injury he got doing the work.

The triage nurse asked for the patients address. My neighbor said he had just met him on the street and was acting as purely a Spanish translator.

Then the hospital asked for my neighbor's address.

My neighbor just made one up!

Who do you think will be paying for that hospital visit?

Yep...all of us!

Lucky he didn't sue my neighbor for his house and savings.

Anonymous said...

why is there always someone blaming whitey? You want everything for nothing and take it from whitey - your social justice -how about getting ajob? after all - whitey gave YOU affirmative action

Anonymous said...

Obama is the next Hugo Chavez. Heathcare first, banking next, then property. When will people realize what's going on?

Anonymous said...

Honestly, why do they always want someone else to lift them out of poverty? If you get free rent, free education, free food, free health care and you still live like an animal, it's your own fault. All the tools you need to be successful are handed to you in this country except your attitude. That's on you.

Anonymous said...

Lino is absolutely correct. Most commenters objecting don't know anything about the issue aside from the Talking Points as handed down by the likes of Hannity Beck and Oxycontin Limbaugh. Look at the developed countries with some sort of "socialized" medicine. Doctors and patients both are more satisfied with their lot. Here in the US, with our wonderful market-driven health care system, patients complain about rising medical costs and doctors moan about tort reform... yet everyone's afraid of (or unable to) agree on a mutually beneficial solution to fix what's broken.

And I love this comment:
Actually, here in NYC it's minorities, many of them illegal, who already got theirs, and it's paid for largely by whitey already.
Typical QC comment - it's overburdened whitey against the thieving (and illegal!) minorities. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Anonymous said...

What about the above comment is incorrect? Go to any emergency room and look around.

Queens Crapper said...

Maybe you should also mention that in the "developed countries" you cite, the income tax is >50% to pay for these programs.

John from Conn said...

The Health Care industry is already one of the most regulated industries in the country at both the Federal and State levels. The answer is not to give more cigarettes to the cancer patient. We do not need more government involvement, we need less!

There are plenty of common sense improvements that the majority of Americans support that would help immediately. These basic suggestions would truly help to "Lower Costs", which is why Americans want Reform in the first place! Americans want lower costs and more free market options not more government! There are many ways to lower costs that could be done immediately that would do the job MUCH MORE efficiently. Using the Free Market to lower costs by allowing consumers to cross State lines or immediately Cutting Taxes on Health Care Expenses is a much easier and more direct solution to reducing price. Creating yet another giant government bureaucracy and deepening our National Debt in the coming years, at the expense of the tax payers and most likely OUR SENIORS is unacceptable. The Free Market, when given a true chance, has proven over and over to be more effective than government when it comes to being fiscally responsible. There are many basic problems with the structure of our "3rd party pay system" that are anti-free market to begin with that need to be addressed first. There is also a great need for tort reform.

Prior to the government’s entrance into medicine, health care was regarded as a product to be traded voluntarily on a free market--no different from food, clothing, or any other important good or service. Medical providers competed to provide the best quality services at the lowest possible prices. Virtually all Americans could afford basic health care, while those few who could not were able to rely on abundant private charity.

Shifting the responsibility for health care costs away from the individuals who accrue them led to an explosion in spending. In a system in which someone else is footing the bill, consumers, encouraged to regard health care as a “right,” demand medical services without having to consider their real price. When, through the 1970s and 1980s, this artificially inflated consumer demand sent expenditures soaring out of control, the government cracked down by enacting further coercive measures: price controls on medical services, cuts to medical benefits, and a crushing burden of regulations on every aspect of the health care system.

The very idea of a “right” to health care is a perversion. There can be no such thing as a “right” to products or services created by the effort of others, and this most definitely includes medical products and services. Rights, as the Founders conceived them, are not claims to economic goods, but to freedoms of action.

Real and lasting solutions to our health care problems require a rejection of the entitlement mentality in favor of a proper conception of rights. This would provide the moral basis for breaking the regulatory chains stifling the medical industry; for lifting the tax and regulatory incentives fueling our dysfunctional, employer-based insurance system; for inaugurating a gradual phase-out of all government health care programs, especially Medicare and Medicaid; and for restoring a true free market in medical care.

Such sweeping reforms would unleash the power of capitalism in the medical industry. They would provide the freedom for entrepreneurs motivated by profit to compete with each other to offer the best quality medical services at the lowest prices, driving innovation and bringing affordable medical care, once again, into the reach of all Americans.

Anony2 said...

The investment income tax means all pensions will pay out less.
Our IRAs will pay out less.

As for socialized health care in other countries, my friends in Greece pay for private doctors whenever possible because the government doctors have long waiting lists and are mostly inept, my friend in Canada had to move to a different province because she could not find a doctor accepting new patients in her old one.

Anonymous said...

If our government cut off free health care to all the illegals, we would be in a better financial position. Whitey has been paying for them forever. Now that many "white" folks and others are unemployed due to our recession, there's no one to pay the tab. Why should 2 states pay for all these people? There is no incentive to save or invest because the government will only take it from you. I'm selling off everything and will use an all cash system like the Asians. As for middle class New Yorkers and people from New Jersey, watch the shift in population as they all move to lower taxed states. Who will pay for these medical bills then? Congress has its own sweet FREE medical deal that we are not entitled to. Government needs to keep its hands out of our pockets.

Anonymous said...

There is so much fraud and waste in the system. All efforts should be focused on that first. When we have wrung the billions of dollars lost in fraud each year then you can show up and ask for more of my money. I am shifting all my assets overseas to tax havens. The cost associated with doing this will far outweigh the endless attempts to reaching into my wallet and take more of my hard earned money.

Anonymous said...

"Oh look, a bunch of white people with a "fuck you, got mine" attitude. I can't wait until UHC is passed and your money is forcibly taken from you."

Oh look! It's an asshole, regardless of color, who never worked a day is his or her life, who thinks it's a good thing that the working class and middle class have to pay for everyone else. Hmmm... What am I trying to say? Oh yea! FUCK YOU!!!

Liman said...

The inescapable facts (not Obama's incessant claims) are:

1. The bill will RAISE the cost health care to the consumer.

2. The bill will RAISE everyone's taxes (big time).

3. The bill will REDUCE the number of doctors.

4. The bill will NOT cover everyone.

5. The bill will result in POORER QUALITY health care and make it LESS ACCESSIBLE.

6. The bill will create the MOTHER of ALL BUREAUCRACIES that we will have to deal with at stressful times in our lives when we LEAST need the aggravation.

If you think your insurance company is annoying now, wait until the government controls them.

And the kicker is that NOBODY WAS CLAMORING FOR THIS.

And no one, NO ONE can produce the legislative evidence (wording of the bills) that the above facts are NOT TRUE. The more you know about this, the worse it gets.

Don't believe the happy talk. FACE REALITY: this is possibly the worst piece of legislation EVER, and that's saying something.

And let's remember George in our prayers.

Anonymous said...

I see Lino's has been watching too much Faux News and the phoney fat bastard Rush.
For years I had HIP. I liked it. I got to see all Dr needed. Never had to pay a dime from union benifets. Then they sold out to a for profit group. The service right away got worse. Then comes the bigcopays. Corp Greed is whats the problem. Until you and your ilk wake the hell up and go after the Corp Cons "GOP", "Tea Baggers" (shills and suckers for the Insurance companies) it will never change.
So stay away from the Faux propaganda station who is own and run by foreign Corporations.

Anonymous said...

LOL!! When I read what John fom Conn wrote, "The Health Care industry is already one of the most regulated industries in the country at both the Federal and State levels." I all most fell out of my chair from laughing so hard. But quickly braced myself. Not sure if I am covered for falling out of a chair. I may have when I was a kid and then the Corp Criminals, John from Conn is protecting might say "thats a pre existing conditon. NO COVERAGE FOR YOU! " "The Health Care Nazis".
Gee John is fom Conn? Where are most Insurance Companies based? Shill shill shill

Queens Crapper said...

The health care industry IS one of the most regulated industries in the country. In fact, outside of nuclear power plants, nursing homes have the most federal and state guidelines.

Lino said...

Propagandist "Liman said.."

"1. The bill will RAISE the cost health care to the consumer."

-If you are not the beneficiary of Socialized care, aka union contract, I suggest you take a look at the trajectory of your premiums over the last five years.

"2. The bill will RAISE everyone's taxes (big time)."

Yes, eventually we will be paying roughly the same percentage as do the Europeans, Canadians etc. Notice how they are coming here and buying out our stores? You have a LOT more security when health care is guaranteed..even with the higher tax rate.

"3. The bill will REDUCE the number of doctors."

The number of doctors is declining already due to the cost of malpractice insurance. There have been numerous articles in media about how private practice physicians are folding their practice and working from hospitals because of this.

"4. The bill will NOT cover everyone."

Nope. Thanks to the gop and insurance lobby, it won't. But the subsequent legislation will. It's inevitable.

"5. The bill will result in POORER QUALITY health care and make it LESS ACCESSIBLE"

There is nothing "poorer quality" -than being unable or afraid to access care or waiting 'till you are -very- sick to do so. You are making the usual bullshit argument here.

"6. The bill will create the MOTHER of ALL BUREAUCRACIES"

You either have your head up your ass --or haven't dealt with an insurance company.

"And the kicker is that NOBODY WAS CLAMORING FOR THIS."

Obama was elected in part with the promise of reforming this broken system.

Try getting your information from a -legitimate- source not AM radio/Fux "News".

georgetheatheist said...

As per Lino:

"...benefitting from Medicare, SSI, etc."

These programs are unsustainable. Baby Boomer demographics say so. It's just a matter of time until these Ponzi schemes will put Madoff's to shame.

"...Civil Servants, THEY all have LIFETIME SOCIALIZED medical care."

That's why the Post Office is considering closing on Saturdays and Germans don't want to shore up Greek unions.

"...4700/yr to some shit insurance co. for something I have yet to use."

That's a pretty good deal. But for you, bubele, I'll cut a better deal. How much ya got? 50 cents? And, Lino, be sure to look BOTH ways BEFORE you cross the street.

As per Liman:

"And let's remember George in our prayers."

Thank you kindly and don't forget to include the incantations of a Beringian shaman.

Lino said...

georgetheatheist said...
As per Lino:
"...benefitting from Medicare, SSI, etc."

"These programs are unsustainable. Baby Boomer demographics say so. It's just a matter of time until these Ponzi schemes will put Madoff's to shame."

As per "George" -a retire school teach? Well "George" these programs -will- have to be sustained -even though it will mean greater taxes. Period.

"That's why the Post Office is considering closing on Saturdays and Germans don't want to shore up Greek unions."

..And you consider yourself an educated individual?

The Post Office's travails stem from a confluence of both rising costs AND declining demand for the service. Had the volume of mail remained at the levels of the early 1990's there would be no problem here.

Really, that is just lame of you...and what the hell does Greece have to do with this? That is about as relevant as if I brought up Bangkok (where medical care is just as good and costs approx one-eighth of here).

"That's a pretty good deal. But for you, bubele, I'll cut a better deal. How much ya got? 50 cents? And, Lino, be sure to look BOTH ways BEFORE you cross the street."

--And to you kind sir: try thinking BEFORE running your bullshit on me :-)

Anonymous said...

Queens Crapper said...

The health care industry IS one of the most regulated industries in the country. In fact, outside of nuclear power plants, nursing homes have the most
federal and state guidelines.

I would highly disagree that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has any oversight according to scientist's, federal investigators, and environmental watch groups of the 104 aging Nuclear power plants in the U.S. The amount of waste and cancer concealed from those plants from private agencies in conjunction with the federal government is appalling. No one works at those plants that doesnt risk cancer.

That is joined by the dangers and risks posed by at least 30 tons yearly of radioactive, cancer-causing nuclear waste produced at each 1,000 megawatt plant with projected costs of $25 billion for any new plants built largely through taxpayer support and their ongoing vulnerability to terrorist attacks at sites like Indian Point.

The NRC agency appears to be looking the other way allowing everything from near meltdowns in a Toledo plant to ignoring internal reports of rent a cops at nuclear plants such as the Peach Bottom facility sleeping on the job.

And that is precisely the same oversight giving to the insurance companies that now own many of the hospital's. Investor owned HMO's
maximize profits rather than minimize cost's for the patient.

Queens Crapper said...


Now there's a success story!

Anonymous said...

Yes, Lino, let's only look at the Socialist countries that don't have crippling debt.

Do we really want the government deciding what is covered and what isn't? Fact is the more money you have, the better care you will have. No matter where you live or what the health plan is.

Anonymous said...

Lino says : "Well "George" these programs -will- have to be sustained -even though it will mean greater taxes. Period."

Wrong there is another option the US governement can become insolvent. There is not infinate resources. You can not continue raising the taxes forever.

Anonymous said...

ahaha cant wate for u whities to pay for my abortions suckas smh

Anonymous said...

U.S. citizens were mandated by government to contribute to social security,from their pay checks..
the medicare contribution is an automatic deduction from the s.s. check ,at age 65. or age 62,for lower benefit. it was not voluntary.

for senior citizens,with fixed incomes, to have $500 billion in benefits taken from medicare by the obama/democrat health care bill is criminal.

most humans need medical help after age 65.

we paid for it during our earning years,and should not be denied when elderly.

as medicare only covers 80% of doctor/hospital costs,a supplementary 20% has to be purchased from health insurance companies. the cost is about $2200./year plus $1200.=$3400.

companies offer a senior plan (HMO) for about $1200/year,paid out of your s.s. benefit. co-pays required.

obama wants to stop this HMO plan. many millions of seniors subscribe to this type of plan. it includes reduced RX prices.
his bill only allows Fla. ,NY, and Oregon to offer this plan ?

why the rush to ram a 2300 page bill through,that many politicians did not read and most citizens do not trust ?
why did he give the public employees unions no 40% tax increase to pay for the insurance?

is it not unethical to to bribe senators for their vote,"louisiana purchase" and" Nebraska buy out" of medicaid.?
as unemployment has reached 10-20% in the U.S.,
should not fixing the economy be a priority ?

georgetheatheist said...

"we paid for it during our earning years..."

Really? When the elderly get hospitalized at the end of their roads, their hospital bills go into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

As I mentioned elsewhere, the system is not sustainable when the Baby Boomers (now at or approaching retirement age) demand their health "entitlements".

This is and will be a demographic nigthmare.

Tell me, did you contribute 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 (or more) thousands of dollars into the system over your lifetime of earnings?

My advice? Get what you can while the getting is good.

Anonymous said...

life is a bunch of hills and valleys. keep "swing dancing", also known as the "lindy hop" or "jitterbug".

i prefer the speed of "just a jiggalo", Louis Primo.

georgetheatheist said...

Louis Prima's "Just a Gigolo" is a slow-down swing know as West Coast Swing. It's categorized as a slot dance where the man and woman change positions throughout on a single line on the dance floor without twirling about frenetically as in the faster-paced swing genre, also known as East Coast Swing. Wilson Pickett's "Mustang Sally" tempo is also WCS.

(This site is _________.)

Anonymous said...

georgetheimbecile: "(This site is _________.)"

This site is Solutrean in its dedication to rumors and fake news?

Queens Crapper said...

Maybe we should all remember that the continents at one point were all one big land mass so arguing over who owes who an apology is ludicrous.