Friday, February 29, 2008

Developers eye Ravenswood

This is a tremendous investment opportunity and a much closer, safer, slightly less attractive artist enclave than Bushwick. Since there are no yuppies or hipsters, Ravenswood has an urban edge with its old-timers,creative newcomers, lunch counters and factory feel. For renters with a little guts, rock bands who need to jam loud or artists welding late into the night, it's perfect.

A power plant, homes and industry share valuable land in Long Island City

Buyer beware: It is five to 10 years from being a completely different place. The IBZ can't last forever. This area will have to become more residential than it is now. Nothing this close to Manhattan can remain factory land forever. Ask the folks in Jersey City or Greenpoint.

Photo from Daily News

28 comments:

Anonymous said...

It will become a better neighborhood, that is a guarantee.
But like Williamsburgh, Greenpoint or LIC? I doubt it.
If it does go that route, it will be at least 10 years from when the economy emerges out of recession and then lets not forget about the two things forever holding back that neighborhood:
1) Limited access to mass transit (the "F" is the only subway and the station is a bit too far)and
2) The Queensbridge projects (nuff said.)

Anonymous said...

The plant's for sale, but if it stays, the area will remain a half-industrial half-residential mystery and develop slowly with pockets of new condos and new homes hyping proximity to midtown Manhattan. If the plant sells to a real estate developer (who would have to offset his cost by selling the electrical generators to an outside power company), this area could propel Queens past Brooklyn as a more sought-after, fairer-priced, residential hub close to Manhattan.

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Whoa, stop the presses. No one in LIC or Astoria is aware of this (well, outside of the politico-developer clubhouse)

And assholes, when does the public have a say in this - when its time to testify before one of those infamous carefully scripted community board meetings?

Silvercup all over again?

Anonymous said...

No wonder there is such a push for the waterfront parks and the like.

Especically since the rest of the community is left to rot.

Anonymous said...

CB1, the community board from hell.

Anonymous said...

"These streets were farmland until the mid-1920s, when Italian families started to build single- and double-family wood and brick homes. Tomato, corn and celery were harvested on what today are fork-lift busy streets."

Wrong. Ravenswood was an elegant upper class suburb destroyed by industry after the Civil War.

"Through the 1960s, the neighborhood thrived as middle class. Neighbors fixed their cars, drank soda pop and played games such as "Kick the can." "

Wrong. The area was a tough working class enclave known as Billy Goat Alley.

"In the '60s and '70s, the growing need for manufacturing and factories saw the arrival of steel companies, ladder makers and freight operators. Most of the single-family wooden homes were demolished for warehouses."

Wrong, industry has been along the waterfront (cutting the community off) since the late 19th century.

Where in the hell do they get this crap. Oh I see, reality is not important. The community is not important.

This is land. Dig a hole and find a gold mine. Locals need not apply.

RedChina said...

Whoa, stop the presses. No one in LIC or Astoria is aware of this (well, outside of the politico-developer clubhouse)

And assholes, when does the public have a say in this - when its time to testify before one of those infamous carefully scripted community board meetings?

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The person with the biggest say in this will be the one that forks over $2B to buy the site. If you have strong feelings on the matter the good news is that this is not communist China. Its America, so you are free to buy the site yourself and turn it into whatever you want.

Anonymous said...

The person with the biggest say in this will be the one that forks over $2B to buy the site. If you have strong feelings on the matter the good news is that this is not communist China. Its America, so you are free to buy the site yourself and turn it into whatever you want.
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City government is to satisfy my needs, not the developer, and my taxes, rather than help my family is used already to subsidize developers.

Do the words Willets Point mean anything to you? Rather than use the money to displace those hard working people, perhaps the money can be used to give me back my waterfront.

Anonymous said...

Yes this is America.

And WE form our opinions. And once WE get organized, look out!

Thanks Crappie for giving the public a voice.

The next step is for us to find our feet.

Anonymous said...

The person with the biggest say in this will be the one that forks over $2B to buy the site.




Making a campaign contribution to win the heart of a politican and sell a community down the river: $5,000.

Putting up a wall closing the community from the waterfront and making an enclave for the rich who will look down on the same:
$2,000,000,000.

Having my son spend a day in a park at the waterfront in the greatest city in the world:
priceless.

Redchina said...

City government is to satisfy my needs, not the developer, and my taxes, rather than help my family is used already to subsidize developers.

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Er, who said anything about subsidies? And why is government being brought into this? unless I read wrong a private seller is privately marketing the site to another private buyer. Why should the goverment have any role in transaction this at all? Are you a communist?

Anonymous said...

Come on guy, who pays the salaries for all those little officials down at city planning etc etc etc.

Who pays to connect you to the Con Ed grid.

Think we are stupid?

Anonymous said...

You can call me anything you want but never call be stupid.

The government is neck deep in waterfront studies and planning and the like.

Anything you build will be under government regulations.

Anonymous said...

So Mr Developer, what is your opinion on Willets Point?

How do you feel if the government came in and said "we want to make this land available for the voters and taxpayers and their children"

You got a problem with the citizens in Astoria and their kids?

Do you think they don't deserve their own waterfront?

Anonymous said...

Welcome to asthma alley!

Each new resident will receive a gift certificate
redeemable for 6 free visits
to the Astoria General Hospital emergency room!

Redchina said...

So Mr Developer, what is your opinion on Willets Point?

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I have no opinion on Willets Point. Don't live there, I don't know what the local issues are and as such it makes no sense for me to speculate on what best for that area. I would expect that the same would apply to outsiders when it comes to the business of my neighborhood.

As far as this plant goes until someoneone points out what role government is playing in this private transaction, my opinion is that land holders should be entitled to free use of their property within the law. This includes selling it to whoever they want. Unless I fell asleep and woke up in China, this is their constitutional right.

Anonymous said...

I have no opinion on Willets Point. Don't live there, I don't know what the local issues are and as such it makes no sense for me to speculate on what best for that area.

---------

Well nitwit, you want to add a massive development to the waterfront adding tons of new stress on the infrastucture, and you act stupid when we talk about something a mile or so away.

You think you are talking to a poltician or a community board member, where they are encouraged to act stupid?

How in the hell can you be taken seriously.

Go ahead, its ok to look. Then get back to us.

Asshole.

Anonymous said...

You never answered the question Mr Developer. Thats a good point about the politicians and community board.

Lets have fun and ask it again.

You got a problem with the citizens in Astoria and their kids?

Do you think they don't deserve their own waterfront?

Anonymous said...

"Unless I fell asleep and woke up in China"

Queens is run like Red China. Big government decides what is good and shows up with the bulldozers.

They orchestrate the party faithfull to rubberstamp whatever Great Leader thinks is good for them.

I think the purpose of this blog is for the taxpayers and citizens to take back their community by defining the issues.

Anonymous said...

"I have no opinion on Willets Point. Don't live there, I don't know what the local issues are and as such it makes no sense for me to speculate on what best for that area."

If you don't live in the community, and dont know the local issues, why do you want to have a big impact on it, while, at the same time, suggest the locals have no say?

RedChina said...

“Well nitwit, you want to add a massive development to the waterfront adding tons of new stress on the infrastucture, and you act stupid when we talk about something a mile or so away.”

------------------

Actually the two areas being discussed are 7 miles away. Probably a 20-25 minute car ride away in traffic. Also can you point out where I stated that I was in favor of a massive development? I think you are reading what you want to hear. Also can we elevate the tone of the discussion? I never called you and a-hole or nitwit. Why do you feel that it’s okay to attack me in that way?


“You never answered the question Mr Developer.”

------------------

You are right, I did not, and I’m not going to. I’m not a politician, just an ordinary citizen, and as such I am not required to have an opinion on everything. The closest thing that I have to an opinion on Willets Point is the following:

A lot of people come onto this website with a narrow agenda that is based off of some local issue that they are facing. They automatically assume that if there is a problem with “X” in my backyard and I think the answer is “Y”, then “X” must be a problem all throughout Queens, and furthermore the solution in my neighborhood must also apply. That is faulty reasoning, and in many cases nothing could be further from the truth. I prefer not to jump to conclusions, try to understand the facts and issues and would encourage others to do the same. Furthermore, all politics is local. Even if I cared to research it and form an opinion, let those living in those areas decide what is best for them without outside influence. Why should I tell people in Willets Point what is good for them when I will never have to live with the effects of that decision one way or the other? If I’m wrong I will never have to live with the consequences.


“You got a problem with the citizens in Astoria and their kids? Do you think they don't deserve their own waterfront?”

------------------

None whatsoever. Personally, I think they do deserve a waterfront, but there are also larger economic issues at play here.


“If you don't live in the community, and dont know the local issues, why do you want to have a big impact on it, while, at the same time, suggest the locals have no say?”

------------------

Please re-read what I’ve said previously, both in this post and earlier ones. Like the reader above I suspect, you read what you wanted to read. However, your question is a great one! Everyone on this board should think about that very question very seriously.


“Queens is run like Red China. Big government decides what is good and shows up with the bulldozers.”

------------------

Do you really know what you are talking about? In China government officials seize land without offering any compensation whatsoever. Many residents are not even given proper notice or time to leave. Imagine a party official knocking on your door and telling you that you have to be out of your house by nightfall and that there will be no financial compensation. In China this website would be shut down, the webmaster would be charged with inciting subversion of state power, put in detention, given little contact with his lawyer or family, and tortured. Somehow this is like Queens? Let’s think before we start making hyperboles. It really diminishes the real issues that people are facing there.

My point in bringing up China is landowners should be entitled to do whatever they want with their land within the boundaries of the law. This article is about private citizen “A” selling to private citizen “B”, but the reaction here is to mobilize the troops. To what end? What business is this transaction of ours? As much as people hate what the government may do on behalf of its citizens, I suspect they would be totally fine with it if citizens had this power. Let’s be honest, if I posted here saying that the people should seize this land and turn it into a park there would be cheers of approval.

Anonymous said...

“You got a problem with the citizens in Astoria and their kids? Do you think they don't deserve their own waterfront?”
------------------
None whatsoever. Personally, I think they do deserve a waterfront, but there are also larger economic issues at play here.


I am certainly glad that you think the 'larger economic issues' (translation, a chance for you to make some buck$) is more important than the quality of life of the voters and taxpayers that live here.

Or more pointedly, Mr Developer, you were silly enough to state it in public. May I remind you that you are not in some smoke filled room on this blog.

Or perhaps you were given a signal that the locals are so much debris and that you have nothing to worry about, and you can say (and do) anything you want.

RedChina said...

“I am certainly glad that you think the 'larger economic issues' (translation, a chance for you to make some buck$) is more important than the quality of life of the voters and taxpayers that live here.”

---------------

It funny as I hit send, I knew that no one would respond substantively to the issues raised in my post. It’s no surprise; this site is full of empty slogans and propaganda. Out of my entire post you chose to focus on one word. Well let me explain the larger economic issues simply to you. If a person forks over $2B to buy this site, it is reasonable to expect some return on his/her investment. Do you honestly expect someone to fork over $2B for this land and create a park? That is entirely unrealistic, and this is why there is so much anger and frustration on this board while project after project continues unabated. When will you guys learn to play ball and get in the game?

The smart move would be trying to work with the developers to get to a compromise position. You are never going to get a low rise development with rolling meadows, but you may get a decent community park, a library, a school, a percentage of affordable housing, etc. etc.

Anonymous said...

The smart move would be trying to work with the developers to get to a compromise position.

-------

hahahahahahaheheheehehehehehohohoho

dont you guys ever think up anything new?

the only thing important is what the citizens want.

Anonymous said...

The smart move would be trying to work with the developers to get to a compromise position. You are never going to get a low rise development with rolling meadows, but you may get a decent community park, a library, a school, a percentage of affordable housing, etc. etc.
---------

Hello Mr Ratner! Hello Mr Queens West! Hello Mr Trump ......

Anonymous said...

You still have not answered my question?

You can place a price tag on a development project.

Now give me a dollar amount when my nine year old son plays in the sunshine in a beautiful waterfront park.

Or don't the little people count in your ledger book?

Anonymous said...

Oh but they do!

Mr Developer will have a weinie roost and the cameras will show up and paint him as a father of the community.

Mr Developer will pay for a kayack and the cameras will show up and paint him as a green friend of the envirnment and hispsters everywhere.

Mr Developer will call a press conference with lots of colorful charts, a few hard hats and ethnics in the background, and the cameras will show and paint as Mr Developer as a friend of the working man and benefactor of 'Affordable Housing.'

Mr Developer will give a slick power point presentation infront of a clueless and bored community board, and the cameras will show up and he will be hailed as a civic leader.

And no disagreeable letters to the editor will be printed and every arguement against will be countered by at least a half dozen 'yes buts' in the press.

Of course the community will support it!

Anonymous said...

CB1, the community board from hell.

Anonymous said...

CB1, the community board from hell.

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How many times are you going to post that? Do you have OCD?