Friday, September 7, 2018

A very entertaining debate

From NY1:

Errol Louis moderated a debate between challenger John Liu and incumbent Tony Avella, in a fierce state Senate race for the 11th district in Queens. The candidates debate their fundraising ethics, and discuss if they would support congestion pricing.

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

Liu avoided the question on whether he is ashamed for letting a 21 year old girl take the fall for his campaign sheningans. I I wonder if he visited her in jail. avelas should have asked that question

Anonymous said...

Why doesnt john liu just go away for good?

Anonymous said...

so the trib supports liu.

all this is a for a grab for asian donations and votes. nothing to do with government

ron s said...

This is one of the many no-brainer primaries out there. Regardless of what you think of Avella, ( I am mixed), Liu has a decades long history of being a self-serving, oily criminal prick.

Anonymous said...

" Liu has a decades long history of being a self-serving, oily criminal prick. "

I think you're being very generous. John son-of-a-bank-thief Liu is evil

Anonymous said...

If I were a Democrat I would vote for Avella. (I'm Libertarian) Avella's far from perfect. Lots of promises and very little results, but Liu is a problem within himself. How he has kept out of the clutches of law enforcement, I believe, has been just luck, and a matter of time. Best he stays out of office, even if it's just for his own good and not for the damage he could cause the community.

Anonymous said...

>Why doesnt john liu just go away for good?

The machine hates dissent and loves corruption, so people like him will always come back.

Anonymous said...

Avella's only crime is being a moderate in 2018. Who would have thought that being a moderate/centrist would be so bad?

Anonymous said...

New Yorkers face higher taxes because of the Trump tax cuts, they have to make it up somewhere but of course not until after the election, you can bet Liu will support whatever Cuomo & Co. and de Blasio & Co. want, Avella is likely to oppose.

Anonymous said...

"Likely" to oppose is a safe moderate option. There's no way Avella would ever oppose anything Cuomo puts out. They're both dyed in the wool Democrat party insiders. And Tony's crime is not "being a moderate," it's being a "do nothing!" But Dems, he's still the better of the two. Barely!

Anonymous said...

"New Yorkers face higher taxes because of the Trump tax cuts..."

Nice sleight of hand there, but the truth is that New Yorkers faced higher taxes well before Trump's tax cuts took effect, the high state and local taxes were always masked by the fact that they were deductible in the past. Now New Yorkers will see the more direct effect of the high state and local taxes they get from voting in Democrats all the time.
We are ranked as the highest taxed state overall and second only to California in combined city/state tax rates.
The number of Americans paying federal income taxes is estimated as low as 40% to begin with.

To be fair, the tax cuts eliminate the deduction on state and local taxes as well as limiting the amount you can deduct for mortgage interest payments.
Balancing that out, is DOUBLING of the child tax credit for families and the decrease in short and long term capital gains.

In the end, those facing higher taxes in New York are the wealthy which in many cases don't live in NYC throughout the year in order to avoid another dreaded tax New York is known for; the Estate Tax.


Bottom line: Trump is in fact cutting taxes, it's New York state and local elected officials battering the middle class with taxes to fund high cost-poor performance public schools, unions pensions and benefits which are higher than doctor's salaries, bloated healthcare costs and huge welfare entitlements for everyone that doesn't want to work or are not US citizens.


Harry Haller

Anonymous said...

Being a "do nothing" beats all that the current government is doing. I would rather have nothing than all this new crap that we now have. Nothing would be great--no unused bike lanes, no injection centers, no relaxing of quality of life rules, no plan to close Rikers, no huge tax hikes...

Anonymous said...

Einstein's second theory of logic: If you keep making the same mistake over, and over, and over, that's the very definition of insanity! Keep electing Democrats and you'll keep having bike lanes, injection centers, moving Riker's to a neighborhood near you for a mere $10 billion and on and on. Switch parties. It doesn't matter which one, they couldn't be worse than Avella or Liu or Cuomo or DeBlasi (or whatever his name is) Think about if for just a minute.

ron s said...

Re "Harry Haller"
I could spend a week telling you how fraudulent your arguments are. But as a short version, tell me how an increase in child care credits and reductions in capital gains offset the middle class loss of deductibility of 1)income taxes 2) real estate taxes 3) the loss of the personal exemptions (which Trump tried to hide under his "expanded standard deduction".
A middle class homeowner in NYC is screwed by Trump's scam tax plan. Looking at my calendar, I think they'll discover it soon.
Make America Great (for Trump's Bank Account!) MAGAFTBA!!!

Anonymous said...

Avella can't even stop the Jet and Hellicoper noise from destroying our quallity of life in North East Queens and Jackdon heights. Time for a change we need term limitts for all elected officials.

Anonymous said...

I understand why Avella is running, but shouldn't Liu be in jail or something?

Anonymous said...

Re: Ron stating the following

"I could spend a week telling you how fraudulent your arguments are. But as a short version, tell me how an increase in child care credits and reductions in capital gains offset the middle class loss of deductability of 1)income taxes 2) real estate taxes 3) the loss of the personal exemptions (which Trump tried to hide under his "expanded standard deduction".

Ok, let's play: how to do math with Ron the Democrat:
The child tax credit is a "dollar for dollar" reduction on your total tax bill which means that if you owe, say $10,000 in federal taxes (middle class) and you have 2 children, you now get to reduce your tax bill by $2000 per child ($4,000) for a total tax bill of $6,000.
The child tax credit reduction DOUBLED from $1,000 to $2,000 so your tax bill would have been $8,000 before the new tax laws.
So you see, a tax CREDIT is much better than a tax DEDUCTION which is a reduction based on a percentage of your taxable income.

1) loss of income tax deductions for city and state taxes are offset by dollar-for-dollar child tax credits, assuming you have children which most of the middle class do.

2) real estate taxes are still deductible (up to $10,000). If your real estate taxes are over $10,000 per year, you have democrat city and state governments to blame for that.

3) loss of personal exemptions ($4,000 per person) are offset by a DOUBLING of the standard deduction from $12,000 to $24,000 for a married couple filing jointly.


so you see, between the doubling of the child tax credit and the doubling of the standard deduction, the loss of state/local income and real estate tax deductions and loss of the personal exemptions are a wash.
My initial statement stands: what is now clearly visible is the huge state and local tax burden being placed on New Yorkers by our State and Local governments. That's not a Republican problem, that's a state and city problem that you remedy by not voting for Democrats and their stupid schemes like paying public sector employees the same salaries as neurologists and physicists.

Harry Haller

ron s said...

Re Harry Haller:
Again, let's be brief. A family of four whose standard deduction goes from 12K to 24K gains 12K and loses 16K in exemptions. That is a savings of minus 4000. The family of three gains nothing.
A couple with high NYS income tax AND high property taxes is limited to 10K deduction. Previous deduction could have been 25K or 30K between the two. And BTW, they also lost the 8000 in exemptions.
So, Harry the Republican tax scam supporter, we still lose, and the law is still a scam.
Incidentally, when most people lose or, at best, break even, while Trump and his indicted and soon to be indicted cronies profit, that is the very definition of scam.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Harry I could not have said it any better !

Anonymous said...

Liu vs Avella, kind of like poop debating pee. To hell with this city.

Anonymous said...

Re: Ron the Democrat said:

"Again, let's be brief. A family of four whose standard deduction goes from 12K to 24K gains 12K and loses 16K in exemptions. That is a savings of minus 4000. The family of three gains nothing."

WRONG...you forgot the DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR deduction for the child tax credit so for that family of four you may lose 4 k in deductions which adds up to an actual tax burden in taxes of 12% (assuming middle class tax bracket for those making less than $77,400) on that $4,000 which equals $480 dollars. Note that the tax brackets have been changed in favor of the middle class.
Compare that $480 dollar tax liability with the $4000 dollar direct tax deduction from your total tax bill which you get with the child tax credit increase. Net advantage is then $3,520 for that family of four.

The family of three gains 12K in the standard deduction and loses 12K in lost exemptions. Then the DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR child tax credit kicks in, which means that they get to reduce whatever their total tax liability by $2,000 dollars. That's $1,000 more dollar for dollar decrease on their total tax liability from before the tax cuts.

Down to brass tacks:
If you're a middle class couple making anything from $60,000 to $77,400 per year, your maximum tax liability under the new 12% tax bracket is $9,288 dollars.

Take off the standard deduction of $24,000 and that couple making $77,400 per year now has a tax liability on $53,400 which comes out to $6,408. Now if that couple has the average 2 children take off a direct $4,000 dollars from that tax bill for the two children, which leaves their total tax liability of $2,408 for the year. That's $92 dollars out of each paycheck (26 per year in the amount of $2,977). If they're smart, they're having the employer take out more than 92 dollars per paycheck, say $150 so at the end of they year their tax refund is $1,492.

Meanwhile, under Trump , their wages are actually going up, they may have gotten a bonus from their employer doing better and their IRA has been increasing by leaps and bounds due to all those American companies doing well and the increase in GDP. They can even shop around for another better paying job since unemployment is at a theoretical low point below 4% and they don't have to worry about wage stagnation and anemic GDP growth of 1% which was supposed to be the new normal under Obama.


As far as that couple with high NY State income tax and high property taxes, that's the original point of my post, the NY State income tax and Property tax are being used to pay for the welfare state and the out of control public sector employee wages and pensions. This is why NY is losing native New Yorkers and congressional seats.
But hey, you keep voting Democrat anyway. LOL

Harry Haller

Anonymous said...

Follow up information on public sector employees so you don't think I'm making this up:
https://nypost.com/2018/08/27/new-yorks-best-paid-public-employees-are-long-island-cops/

Apparently you shouldn't waste your time going through 12 to 14 years of college, medical school and residency to become an orthopedic surgeon or vascular surgeon. Just become a police officer in Glen Cove or Ramapo. Not diminishing the vital role of law enforcement in society, but these are public sector jobs paid for by our tax dollars and justifying $300,000 a year when the middle class is getting squeezed out of New York becomes more and more difficult.
Same goes for nurses at state psychiatric hospitals pulling in the same salary as corporate attorneys at greater than $250K per year.

Harry Haller

Anonymous said...

Term Limmits Please !

ron s said...

Re Harry Haller:
Again, let's be brief.
1) "If they're smart, they're having the employer take out more than 92 dollars per paycheck, say $150 so at the end of they year their tax refund is $1,492."

So if they take more out of their check they get a refund? Is that something new? They could take out 1000 extra per week and get a refund of 52,000!

2)Meanwhile, under Trump , their wages are actually going up, they may have gotten a bonus from their employer doing better and their IRA has been increasing by leaps and bounds due to all those American companies doing well and the increase in GDP.

The vast majority of companies have kept the money, and not given it to workers. They have bought back stock shares. The few that gave bonuses did it to do photo-ops with Trump. Companies are closing and moving out of the USA. The great Trump deals, like Harley-Davidson, are failures. His idiotic allegiance to coal is an economic and environmental disaster, but another photo-op with workers in hard hats. I will agree with you, with one moderation: CEO'S are doing much better, with greater bonuses and their wealth is increasing by leaps and bounds.
You need to lighten up on the Trump sauce-it's clouding your logic.

Anonymous said...

Ron the Democrat,

Now you're being deliberately obtuse.
The point about the employee having money taken out of their paycheck (as most do) is that they are getting a larger refund compared to the year before no matter how much is being taken out. But you knew this and chose to add snarky commentary instead of admitting that your math is incorrect.

Ron the Democrat also said:

"The vast majority of companies have kept the money.....the few that gave bonuses did it to do photo-ops...."

Well then here's a list of 164 companies, starting with American Airlines, that did give back to workers in increased wages and bonuses, that's a lot more than a "few",
and a lot better than under Obama when NO companies were giving back. In fact, the new norm under Obama was supposed to be 1% GDP, remember that?:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/boom-164-companies-give-bonuses-lower-fees-to-millions-citing-trump-tax-cuts

Furthermore, I don't believe, from your commentary, that you have the slightest understanding of how our capitalist system works. If you did, you would understand that anyone with a retirement plan benefits from companies on Wall street doing better since their pensions and IRA's are directly tied to the success and profits of companies like American Airlines, ExxonMobil and Google.
Then you throw in the obligatory "it's all about the rich" routine. That's funny considering that minority unemployment is now at an all time low.

What sort of Democrat are you anyway? You say you want to help those that don't benefit from American success and when confronted with actual numbers and success for those same people, you cry and whine that it's all bad.

My diagnosis is an acute case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

...better get the diapers ready for when Mueller finds no collusion. LOLOLOLOLOL

Harry Haller


ron s said...

Re: Harry Haller
The diagnosis of "Trump Derangement Syndrome" must be from Fox and Friends. You should expand your viewing horizons.
All legitimate studies have shown that the vast majority of tax cut money 1) bought back stock 2) went into the corporate treasury and 3) did not go to workers. Even if your 164 companies did that, how many companies exist in the US? Would 164 be even close to 1%?
Re the great conditions for workers, all legitimate studies show that inflation has outpaced wage growth,so your newly rich Trump-benefiting workers are actually behind where they were.

Re "Furthermore, I don't believe, from your commentary, that you have the slightest understanding of how our capitalist system works. If you did, you would understand that anyone with a retirement plan benefits from companies on Wall street doing better since their pensions and IRA's are directly tied to the success and profits of companies like American Airlines, ExxonMobil and Google"

I, of course, yearn to learn economic theory from you, but at my limited level, I would ask you 1) You mention pensions--what % of companies have pensions? Does anyone even know what a pension is? The people you worship (corporate CEO's etc.) have destroyed worker pensions in order to contribute even less to worker benefits and wash their hands of any post retirement responsibility. 2) Nobody questions whether healthy corporations MIGHT be helpful to workers. I do question whether any of that "health" actually benefits anyone below the C-suite. Given the poor performance in passing along the tax cuts to workers, the constant cuts to worker benefits, elimination of pensions, resistance to living wages etc.etc. I question your naive faith in the goodness of your corporate idols.
I see only 2 possibilities here:
1) You are rich yourself
2) You are extremely naive for your age

Re Trumps future and my diapers...Trump is going down..no one that brainless, heartless and soulless will last. The method of his downfall is not clear yet. Impeachment, forced resignation, imprisonment are all possibilities. His collusion (or more correctly, conspiracy with a foreign power) isn't even a question. When he goes, I'll send the remainder of my diapers to you for use as crying towels. Keep them by the TV as you and Fox and Friends commiserate.

Tommy Efreeti said...

TDS aptly describes Trumptarts the best - only deranged fools froth at the mouth to so rabidly and continually defend an amoral, demented, drooling idiot whose own aides have to enact daily damage-control just to keep him from debasing us more than he already has. But sure - EVERYONE else is wrong, you guys are the only ones who REALLY know what's going on ;) Hahha.. ok keep digging that hole that says you're winning guys -- maybe if you stick your fingers in your ears hard enough, you won't have to keep seeing that mean old truth :)

AFA current crop of Queens Democrats, they're also mostly bums! Political participation is largely a crap-toss between the lesser of two evils in this City. Need more people like Cortez and Holden. Or God forbid, true independents who restrict their interests to their backyards.

Anonymous said...

Ron the Democrat,


I see you like to pick and choose your facts, so I'll state them again for you:

1. You missed the main point about how most pensions and IRAs are tied to corporate profits...soooooo, when corporations do well, so do Americans. Capiche? It's called capitalism and it's been the economic system driving this nation for 250 years.

2.Inflation outpacing wage growth, LOL, you missed the main point again.
As if Obama's 10 Trillion dollar spending spree didn't have a connection to the inflationary background we're talking about.
The point being that wages are GROWING with Trump's economic policy, not shrinking as they were under Obama. Put another way, would you rather wages growing in an inflationary environment or shrinking in an inflationary environment?

3. Your statement on pensions reveals how little you actually know, although you post as if you actually know something.
Here's my proof; TIAA. You know, that financial services company that handles the pensions for 5 million teachers and academics (many in the public sector). They manage over a Trillion in assets invested in, you guessed it, corporations. Those same corporations you are deriding here. Get this through your head, the American economy runs on the productivity of the American worker. Corporations employ Americans, they're owned by Americans, they benefit Americans through wages, benefits, pensions and taxes collected.
In answer to your question, pensions have largely been replaced by 401ks in the corporate world but they also invest in Wall street just as the pension system did.
So in fact there are private pensions provided through many corporations, there are IRAs and 401k's funded by private corporations. There are also public sector pensions which are seen in every state, in cities and at the federal level. Once again, they all invest in corporations to ensure their future. Get it?

Finally, on diapers again.
I suggest you buy stock in Pampers because you're obviously gonna need them when there is no collusion found by Mueller. Heck, you might as well profit from your ignorance.
In short, you're either an aging liberal who has swallowed the whole CNN/NYTimes story hook, line and sinker or worse, you're one of these naive socialists who is still waiting for Bernie to take over and hoping that Ocasio-Cortez is the savior you've been looking for to you lead you to the promised land of Venezuela.

Harry Haller


Anonymous said...

Dear Ms. Tommy Efretti,

I noticed you forgot to address any of my actual points,
as did Ron the Democrat who conveniently ignored the point about minorities doing better under Trump than Obama. Inconvenient truth I guess.

No, I see you'd rather double up on stupid just as most libtards do when confronted with actual numbers and data.

What is it that drives you people? Is it a dogmatic allegiance to the unions that are becoming more irrelevant with each passing year, or is it a myopic view that you voted for JFK 100 years ago so your brain is stuck in the last century?

Either way, it's not that I'm right, it's that you and your troglodyte-toady army of democrats have been proven so wrong so often, but still vote democrat like a bunch of zombies.

So go on defending the following as a dimocrat:

-open borders, because hey, we can always crowd in another 500 Million people and really clog up the Van Wyck.

-socialism; 50 million murders under Mao and Stalin, Venezuela and Cuba turned into third world hell holes... but you know it will work this time around.

-dismantling ICE, because who needs to defend our laws when you can hang out with MS-13 and Radical Islamists who are really just misunderstood individuals...and potential democrat voters.

-Obama's legacy.......oh yeah, there is none....bwahahahahahah.

Yours Truly,

Harry Haller

p.s. don't forget to buy Pampers stock, but if that doesn't work out, you can always line your cage with the New York Times if that doesn't work out.

JQ LLC said...

Re: Ron, Harry, Tommy

Now that was an interesting debate!

ron s said...

Re: Anonymous JQ LLC said...
Re: Ron, Harry, Tommy

Now that was an interesting debate!

Actually, it was interesting in the beginning-it was somewhat fact based (discussing tax plans etc.). Now that we are into Mao, Venezuela, the existential threat of Ocasio-Cortez, the troglodyte-toady army, the ability of the faultless capitalist system to cure all ills, libtards, the effect of immigration on the Van Wyck, it's time to bow out.

Perhaps the anger is related to Manaforts upcoming cooperation......

I'm booking my vacation to Venezuela with "Ally" (my pet name for Ocasio). We're going to do some communist show trials and executions together.

Bye, Harry......