Orthodox Jewish tenants at LeFrak City in Queens claim they are being discriminated against because newly installed lobby doors only open with an electronic key — which they cannot use on the Sabbath, a federal lawsuit alleges.
Sulaymon Ibragimov and Murod Takhalov are suing the LeFrak Organization for alleged religious discrimination under the Fair Housing Act.
“Halakha, the Jewish law, prohibits Jews from breaking or creating an electric circuit on the Sabbath, and during certain days of observance such as Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, and Passover,” according to the suit filed in Brooklyn Federal Court.
For a half century, tenants used metal keys to open the lobby doors, but a massive renovation project begun in 2012 has created new religious barriers for hundreds of Jewish families who reside at the 20-building complex in Rego Park, the class-action suit alleges.
The renovations included new lobby doors that open using an electronic key fob, which is also used to activate lights in the stairwell by using motion and sound detectors.
Ibragimov, 26, and Takhalov, 45, say they cannot use the elevator on the Sabbath or holy days as well, and the automatic lights also violate religious law for observant Jews.
How do they know that God doesn't want them to use electricity since the bible makes no mention of it?
72 comments:
All this religious stuff is ridiculous.
I have two friends who live in a high rise on the lower east side. During some sort of Jewish holiday the three elevators are run in "test mode" meaning they land on all floors continuously, 24 hrs/day/ this is an enormous waste of electricity and machinery, not to mention the inconvenience of the other, non-Jewish residents.
If your ancient superstition stipulates this sort of nonsense, at least be considerate enough to live on a low floor that you can walk up to.
All religionists are neurotics. Orthodox Judaism, I'd venture to say, is the primus inter pares.
Started in 2012 and they just realized that the doors need a key fob,my ass,think the sabbath ever stopped Chuck Schummer from stepping in front of a TV camera or Sheldon Silver ever saying I can't take a Bribe on the Sabbath, didn't think so.
They need to stop complaining. They probably got those houses at a cheap rate through a connection they have just like most jews do! One jew washes the other jews' hand!
It's wonderful to know that they will probably get their way. A lot of them already live off of welfare, don't work and have so many kids but then they get to live the good life in housing that they pay cheaply for through their temples and then they cry that everything is racist against them! If anything us non jewish, non greek orthrodox , non china men or korean men americans get discriminated against the most in nyc! All of these people have "housing connections" and get everything through their churches and people for cheap! Meanwhile, the rest of us who don't belong to any of these races or religious groups have to compete with the churches for housing or get thrown into a market where all the real estate agents are one of them and of course you know who they will get good deals on houses for! Their own kind of course! If they see a white man who is not one of theirs, they will jack up the price on the property. If it's a black person, they wouldn't even want to deal with them! The government should cut out all real estate agents out of the market and fix the way housing is sold here but of course that's not going to happen because look who runs most of the government anymore...asians and jews! Cuomo and dumblasio are two clueless incompetent idiots who don't care or seem to want to know what is going on in the housing market!
Crappy, the classification of electricity creation as forbidden work is Talmudic, not biblical, and it was at one time contentious but now largely a settled matter.
That said, there's nothing conceivable frokm the story as reported that discrimination took place.
Electricity = fire. Some old testament nonsense about not starting fires on the Sabbath has somehow translated into "leave the lights on" They need to get a "house Goy" to help them.
"How do they know that God doesn't want them to use electricity since the bible makes no mention of it?"
- - -- - -- - - - - -- - - --
Belittling the faith of believers is uncalled for. Shame on you.
Isn't all friction - putting a key in a door and turning it, at its essence a form of electromagnetism ?
Looks like you'll be going to he'll, or rather, not going to heaven after all.
"The bible makes no mention of it." Just like papal supremacy, saints, purgatory, Immaculate Conception, etc. etc.
Are they trying to make some money so they can move out of LeFrak?
The building in the photo is 16 stories high. That's not exactly Everest.
Ever heard of the stairs?
""The bible makes no mention of it." Just like papal supremacy, saints, purgatory, Immaculate Conception, etc. etc."
Yes, and what housing demands do Catholics have based on these concepts, Roger?
Actually, they can't have a "house Goy" because asking someone to commit a sin is an even greater sin than doing it yourself.
"Belittling the faith of believers is uncalled for. Shame on you."
How did I belittle anyone by asking a question that I truly want to know the answer to? Sensitive much?
As one commenter already noted, it comes from Halakhah ("Jewish Law"), which is the collective body of Jewish laws.
There's actually a big controversy in the orthodox community over Jewish teens who text on the Sabbath.
One source for information about orthodox practices is the Zomet Institute. Here's an interesting point on their website regarding electricity and the sabbath: "If turning electrical currents on and off would be allowed, the appearance of Shabbat would be completely different than it is today, since almost anything can be accomplished today using electricity, and there would no longer be any apparent difference between Shabbat and the other days of the week."[Emphasis added.]
So perhaps the best way for those of us who don't belong to religious groups, or who do but don't abstain from anything on our Sabbath (whichever day of the week that happens to be) is this: For some groups, the Sabbath is special, and is supposed to be a day of rest, different from the other days of the week. One needs to try a little harder during the Sabbath.
Remember when liquor stores had to be closed on Sunday in some US states?
These kinds of antique so called "religious" practices belong in the Middle Ages.
Maybe it's a matter of security to use electronic keys for the good of ALL the residents of the buildings.
As I have been informed by many Jews, concerning emergency or safety situations , some minute sabbath practices can be broken.
"How do they know that God doesn't want them to use electricity since the bible makes no mention of it?"
Holy hell, this is really god damn funny.
-somethingstructural
Extreme orthodoxy, it seems, whether it is Muslim or Jewish or born again Christian...whatever..
is the root of all strife going on in the world.
Do you really think that G-d...the Creator ...the Supreme being or force... was so narrow minded
as to specify in any form...written or spiritual...beyond the importance of living according to some golden rule...such ridiculous practices?
If so, I'm with George the Atheist.
This is nit picking nonsense.
Isn't Sam Lefrak (now the more non Jewish, French sounding, Le Frak) the man who built Lefrak City, one of your own?
There are loopholes in all laws and rules.
Go back a couple of months to when seven in an Jewish Orthodox family died because the mother was bending the rules. She kept an electric hot plate on during the Sabbath and it shorted out causing a fire that decimated the family.
I was once holding a conversation with an orthodox Jewish mother.
She constantly ranted about all of those "black people" who dropped babies like rabbits when their family did not have the income to raise them properly.
I looked around at her own five children and wondered if this was a case of the pot calling the pan black.
She was on some form of public assistance, herself.
New York Hospital Queens on Main Street.
On the sabbath elevators stop on every floor automatically.
I hope the emergency ones do not!
Then let the orthodox Jews of Lefrak pay for their own goy doorman on their sabbath, instead of paying a lawyer to sue.
This kind of insular insistence that the whole has to bend t the demands of the few is anti social behavior.
In a way this type of narcicism causes all kinds of trouble wherever it goes.
Cooperation, not isolation is the KEY to respect and coexistence, if not brotherhood.
Vey iz mere. The Yiddlum clash with the Goyem management.
The orthodox clash with the secular. The same problems of Israel come to a little corner in Queens.
Whoops!
Now their lawyer might try and sue Queens Crap for being anti Semitic, for permitting such an exchange of free speech.
Honestly....
I once saw a car with a bumper sticker that read, "I'm a Jew. I'll sue".
That was intended, I suppose, as a warning to anyone tailgating the car.
Maybe it was Jackie Mason's car. I love his humor.
Tribal nonsense instead of tribal wisdom.
Insular nit picking instead of cooperation with the much larger family of Man (and Woman, not meaning to exclude the other sex).
Perhaps Lefrak management will put on a sabbath door man and impose a small monthly surcharge on their rent.
Perhaps they will rant, "anti Semitism" over the surcharge. Stop being howling adolescents. Sit down and find a solution agreeable to both sides. Talk to the non Jewish Pakestinians, while you're at it. Everybody really desires to live in peace instead of a state of war.
arent there any stairs they can use?
That's not discrimination, that's improvement. You give up your rights to choose windows, doors and elevators when you RENT.
*I believe, but you pay*. Same old story.
"Most religionists are neurotics." Better words never spoken, and I count myself among the faithful. But, you can hardly win an argument with a man who consults with the open sky.
I am absolutely appalled at the blatant antisemitism and Jew bashing in this thread. It's like "Bring out all the resentments against Jews you've been harboring for the last umpteen years". First of all, it may not be possible to find a unit on the first few floors, housing being dear in congested NYC. Try climbing 6 flights of stairs, let alone 16 flights, and get back to me as to how much you like it. Especially if you have small children who may not be able to easily make the climb. Second, electricity had not been harnessed by Man in the times of the giving of the Torah, so it is not mentioned there. After it was invented, committees of the most eminent rabbis of the day studied the new phenomenon and ruled that it was a form of fire, since that was the closest of the categories mentioned in the Torah to slot it in. The ludicrous comment here about "keys turning, thus generating electromagnetic energy" is just as mean as it is stupid. There would have to be steady rotation at much higher speeds than opening a lock to generate electromagnetic current.
The comments about "cheap rates", "making money", etc. are just pure antisemitism unleashed, rehashing the same old smears.
Jewish teens who text on the Sabbath are surely NOT Orthodox, and have nothing to do with this discussion. The so-called "loopholes" are only in effect in circumstances such as life and death situations, when a woman is giving birth, to save a life, etc. Being able to use an elevator, walk the halls of an apartment building or use a key to open your own door would not even approach the criteria for violating the Sabbath.
For those who cry that this is not discriminatory, I beg to differ. Not being able to easily enter your own building or open your own door, sometimes having to wait an HOUR until a non-Jew happens to open the door to the building, is not something that anyone living in a building should have to endure. They are paying the same rent as everyone else, and therefore they should have equal ease at using the building. The installation of the electronic key cards without thought of the consequences to observant Jews living in the building reflected an appalling lack of "thinking outside the box" and putting oneself into the moccasins of another. Just because the use of electronic key cards would not present a problem for most living in the building did not mean it was OK, if those who would then be severely inconvenienced by this move are paying the same money to live there. What if the management decided that the aroma of freshly roasted peanuts would enhance the buildings' atmosphere and therefore installed misters in the halls to dispense a mist of micro-crushed peanuts? What of those tenants who are severely allergic to peanuts? Would they have the same use of the building as those not allergic to peanuts? Hardly. So why vilify observant Jews whose use of the building on the Sabbath is then severely limited because of the keycards?
As for the Brooklyn family who perished due to a faulty hot plate on the Sabbath, they were not trying to "get around" the religion in their use of the hot plate. So long as electric things such as lamps or hot plates or hot water urns, etc. are turned on before the Sabbath, they may be used on the Sabbath. It's the turning on and off that is forbidden. The reason a fire occurred is because the family moved to the U.S. from Israel and they were not familiar with U.S. brands of hot plate, which were not designed to be kept on continuously for 24 hours, as are Israeli brands intended for observant families.
For those of you who decried religion altogether or who ridiculed Jews who choose to continue their religious obligations dating back thousands of years in a proud unbroken chain, go live your own lives in your own way. You have no standing to make fun of people doing what their G-d told them to do.
I am not Jewish but I respect other peoples faiths and I find nothing but anti Jewish postings here, Lefrak installed those fobs for one reason only - to eliminate another service (Doormen) and save a buck.
Sorry to tell you we also are complaining (another Lefrak building) - all different religions or no religion).
"What if the management decided that the aroma of freshly roasted peanuts would enhance the buildings' atmosphere and therefore installed misters in the halls to dispense a mist of micro-crushed peanuts? What of those tenants who are severely allergic to peanuts? Would they have the same use of the building as those not allergic to peanuts? Hardly."
Um, what?
Real thoughtful of them. Not only does it keep religious Jews from living there, but if there's every another blackout, no one will be able to get in!
"...is not something that anyone living in a building should have to endure."
Why should even one renter have to endure an elevator stopping at every floor in the observance of a religion that is not theirs?
"What of those tenants who are severely allergic to peanuts?"
This is totally absurd.
"...or who ridiculed Jews who choose to continue their religious obligations dating back thousands of years in a proud unbroken chain, go live your own lives in your own way."
All should be able to live their lives in their own way without interference from a religion not their own.
That's some peanut analogy sir or ma'am. You may have unwittingly gave a greedy developer or landlord a new tactic for driving out tenants. What a nut. You have taken doublespeak to a new level. But in this p.c. revival going on and having commemorations and holidays for every religion and lifestyles, creative accusations and condemning are pretty much status quo now.
Other than that, this is just entitlement bullshit that is discriminatory ,inconvenient and unfair to others. Now accuse me of being an anti-semite or a jihadist.
Peanuts...
These people really need to create their own private community or get out of the stone ages !
This political correct you must do what I want or I will sue you nonsense needs to stop. Someone needs to stand up and say enough is enough. If you don't like it and want to act like its still the caveman times before electricity, that's fine. You can move somewhere else that will accommodate you.
I am not surprised at the number of posters whose narrow mindset does not allow them to understand the peanut analogy. OK, let's make it R-E-A-L S-I-M-P-L-E for those knee-jerk "I don't want to have to accommodate anyone but my cretin selfish self". Let us suppose that the building management introduced ANYTHING which would make life difficult for certain tenants--like deciding to block football games and popular TV shows from being received by tenants' antennas. Formerly, everyone was able to receive the shows that they liked, and all was well with the world. Now, you can't get what you want. There are some tenants who couldn't care less about TV. They don't even watch TV, it's not part of their lives. They could care less if there is TV reception or not. Should they be deaf and uncaring about their neighbors being deprived of their TV reception? Or should they support their neighbors in getting services they understood would be part of life living in that building when they moved in? And how about even being ABLE TO ENTER THE BUILDING AND OPEN YOUR OWN DOOR? Isn't that a basic service understood to be part of the deal when you signed up to live there? Several people have been griping about "having to wait while an elevator stopped on every floor". Poor baby. How would you like to have to stand outside, perhaps in the rain or cold, waiting up to an HOUR as one tenant described, to gain access to the building when a non-Jew happened to enter or leave the building?
This whole idea of key cards was stupid, unresearched, and showed callous disregard to people who already lived in the building. I assure you that they were not consulted on this measure which would so adversely affect their lives. It is terrible to see such callous and ignorant attitudes reflected by people posting on this thread as well. Stop being so selfish and self-centered. That isn't what makes the world go 'round.
"How would you like to have to stand outside, perhaps in the rain or cold, waiting up to an HOUR as one tenant described, to gain access to the building when a non-Jew happened to enter or leave the building?"
You don't HAVE to. You choose to.
The refutation to the peanut allergy analogy is simple. "Disparate Impact" discrimination, which is the basic judicial concept behind your example, would make it incumbent upon the landlord to prove, assuming the obvious ease with which it could be demonstrated by the allergy sufferers that peanuts are a problem, that peanut essence was a necessary imposition into the common area in order to carry out their duties reasonably in building upkeep and not a capricious measure to deter a protected class. The likely use for that scent would be to freshest the air, for which other non peanut scents could be found at a similar price, accomplishing the same end, and so the continued use of peanut essence would likely be ruled discrinatory against that health condition.
The key card howver, allows Le Frak not only to save money, but also to offer a heightened level of security through electronic monitoring and key deactivation which no non-electric system would provide. I am sure there may be other benefits as well, such as deals they could only get on other building surveillance by buying a bigger package including the electronic locks.
Just because there are a few nasty posters in this thread does not make the consensus that these 2 men are adversarially imposing upon everyone else incorrect.
I agree with the usage of key cards, being adverse to invasive and penetrable technology.
But the TV analogy is as absurd as the peanut.
After it was invented, committees of the most eminent rabbis of the day studied the new phenomenon and ruled that it was a form of fire, since that was the closest of the categories mentioned in the Torah to slot it in.
That's just silly.
there are alot of Section 8 people there and they are not renewing Section 8 anymore -- maybe they are on Section 8 and are starting trouble over this -- they have been there for a long time now -- why start this at all -- there is a temple on site and also a Mosk too on sight --
That's just silly.
So, apparently are YOU. How dare you call the precepts of another person's religion "silly"? Using language like that to describe what is holy and precious to a person of that religion is childish and reveals you to be an insensitive person likely of mediocre IQ. Trying to explain something to someone of your ilk is truly a waste of time.
The observant Jews are already tenants in the building. To impose a great hardship on their residency in the building AFTER they are established residents is not fair. Either they should be provided an alternative to enter the building and their apartment which does not violate the Sabbath or they should be subsidized in finding alternative housing. Furthermore, it should then be made clear to prospective future tenants that the keys to the building and individual apartments violate the Sabbath and Jewish holidays. What a neat way to keep Jews out of the building! And, what a great way for the government to stick a further finger into the surveillance of its citizens.
Both the peanut and TV analogies are ridiculous. Neither pertains to safety, as the key card does.
This is really a matter of "too bad, so sad." Time to get modern.
There are no Orthodox Jews living in my building currently. What if management decides tomorrow to employ this key card system, then a month from now an Orthodox Jew wants to move in? Have we proactively engaged in discrimination, preventing Orthodox Jews from being able to move in because of the locks? R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S.
...and this "Stop being so selfish and self-centered..." The IRONY! My God, my sides hurt from laughing.
Whoever said there's no such thing as a "house goy" - who are you fooling? We all know you have a goy come in and turn your lights on, and whatever other evil sins you need done. My sister had a friend in college who would never ask for someone else to turn her lights on/off on the sabbath, but she'd hint around enough. I witnessed it once myself when the girl went into the bathroom, "Boy it sure is dark in here. Wow! It's SO DARK in here." she went on and on until someone got up and turned the bathroom light on for her. What a farce.
There are plenty of strike kits that have key overrides. Petetion management to install one and only hand out $200 mushroom cylinder keys to those with notes from a rabbi. Boom, problem solved. Forget this lawsuit, if you think there's disparate impact then have a rent strike. If you're right you get what you want. If you're wrong you risk eviction. The only people winning in your current arrangement are the lawyers.
-somethingstructural
So, apparently are YOU. How dare you call the precepts of another person's religion "silly"?
This is America, you self-righteous ranter, not Iran, and we have every right to do so as long as Crappy permits it on his forum, ya' got it? QueensCrap is a form of community it in its own way.
"They should be provided... They should be provided..."
How about they should be provided with a one-way ticket to Kiryas Joel where their self-imposed religious needs are not holding back modernity for everyone else?
"Stop being so selfish and self-centered. That isn't what makes the world go 'round."
Need I remind you about being selfish and self centered when demanding that others follow the precepts of a different religion?
At the age of 12 (a long time ago) I learned that a goy was used to perform forbidden tasks. While delivering the LI Press I was lured into a house to light the stove with the promise of a quarter when I returned the next day. The next day when I rang the bell the blinds went up but no one ever answered the door. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever help someone break the Sabbath again.
Anonymous said: "There's actually a big controversy in the orthodox community over Jewish teens who text on the Sabbath."
If the Orthodox community is going to bitch about an electronic key to the building as an affront to their religion, then they better practice what they preach/demand from others within their own family 'cause I don't know any other way to send a text but electronically.
Muhammad would say"Can't we all just get along" or was that Confusions, might have been Jesus? No no it was Obama selling nukes to Iran, that's it!! Could have been DiBlasio,I'm so confused now.
They are making the choice to live among the goyim (or at least Jews who are not sabbath electro-phobes) with the goyim laws and goyim improvements to safety and security. If they want to live in a shtetl of their own design, they can move to one like Kiryas Joel
53 comments later, I'd like to throw in my two cents. To ask for a Sabbath elevator in a building where the majority of residents are not Jewish is an excessive request but to ask for a non-electronic key seems reasonable and would come at little cost to the management.
Whether or not you understand why Orthodox Jews shun electronics on the Sabbath, you should respect it the same was that Orthodox Jews respect the pealing of church bells on Sundays and Christmas music in shopping malls after Thanksgiving.
If you wish to look up case law in religious accommodations, my brothers succeeded in installing doorposts (mezuzahs) against condo boards, co-ops and landlords.
"...Christmas music in shopping malls after Thanksgiving."
Shopping malls are privately owned and can play any music they want. The apartment buildings are privately owned and can install any safety measures they deem necessary.
There go the knee jerk anti Semitism criticisms.
It has become an industry, already.
Jews think they are the only victims of bias.
Try being a person of color like me.
I have had to suffer Jewish bigotry against my race.
"My girl. My Schvartzasschvantz", is what I used to hear
my Jewish neighbor's use to avoid using the "N" word,
which would have been more honest.
Sorry mein kinder, you are not the chosen people when it comes to
having all of your demands met at the expense of the majority.
My co-op board said mezuzahs were OK but no American flag
Next is Sharia law I suppose, I give up.
Sergey,
The case you mention is not a worthy comparison. The mezuzah is a purely decorative element to a building which can be confined entirely to the condo owners individual door frame. All the plaintiffs would have had to do was point to the tolerance of a Christmas wreath on a door front to have a valid case. This is about the security concerns of a common door to the entire building. No one's entitled to non-electronic key access, sorry.
What goes on in churches halfway across town is a noise ordinance, and privately owned shopping malls can play whatever they damn well please as long as it's only audible. Didn't you work in government once? You should know this stuff.
>Schvartz
Just German for "black". If it was a racial slur there wouldn't be so many Jews name Schwartz.
Whether or not you understand why Orthodox Jews shun electronics on the Sabbath, you should respect it the same was that Orthodox Jews respect the pealing of church bells on Sundays and Christmas music in shopping malls after Thanksgiving.
If you wish to look up case law in religious accommodations, my brothers succeeded in installing doorposts (mezuzahs) against condo boards, co-ops and landlords.
Neither church bells and Christmas music, nor mezuzahs pertain to safety. You cannot compare these to electronic locks, no matter how hard you want to try.
Sergey, you know well that a tenant's own mezuzah on their own door of their purchased condo is a remote comparison to a common door paid for by the landlord to a renter. Be bigger than your tribal affiliation and exercise some "tzedek".
Just German for black?
The tone I've heard Jews use that accompanied Schvartza was anything but respectful of the black race.
They used the term in a demeaning way.
Remember the German Jews who considered themselves to be good Germans and ignored the fact that they were Jewish?
Hitler packed them into the same railroad cars with the other non German Jews.
That is what my Russian Jewish grandmother told me.
She further said that German Jews thought they were superior to the Eastern Jews.
There you go...a master race among flock.
This paranoid persecution complex that many orthodox have is beyond clinical.
It seems to have become a business. Granted...Jews have been persecuted in the most ruthless manner.
Granted...this is the 21st century. It is no longer the serious threat that it was under Spanish or Nazi rule.
You are raising your children to be fearful and isolationist.
We all worship a Divinity. Why should one group have supreme privileges over another?
Grow up! Concentrate on worship instead of technical details.
G-d will not strike you dead with a lightning bolt if you use a key card.
Jehovah...whoever...has better things to do with His time.
Reformed Jews have no problem with this.
Perhaps Orthodox Judaism , with its exclusionary club membership practices, will become a vanishing sect soon.
Some of these little practices and rules have become too archaic to survive. They have no real bearing on the eternally good soul.
The core religion is what is important, not the trifling outmoded details of a sect.
When a small group, be they Jewish or Muslim extremists, insists that they are the ones...that bears thinking about.
Respect and cooperation is the key to living in our global village. It is time to put aside such trifling nonsense and look at the bigger picture.
And. I suppose that there are a handful who think that a squad of neo Nazis are posting on this topic.
Bring up a Jewish topic and anyone who has an independent opinion that runs contrary to a Jewish opinion is immediately branded an anti Semite.
Look at all of the posts.
Jewish topics seem to guarantee a deluge of anti-Semitic accusations.
It is important to never forget...or it shall never happen again.
Holocaust musems are for that good purpose. Never forget history.
But I wonder if a serious concern can become a seriously debilitating obsession
and scare the hell out of children.
Would a muzuzot have to be removed if it upset Muslim tenants
Just asking?
Now I'll chime in.
Post WWII....about 1948...
my close friend Allan
Goldstein returned from "Hebrew school" at 4 o'clock.
He did this once a week after our regular public school day.
Before we were ready to play I was curious and
I asked him what he learned that day.
He told me about the rabbi telling the boys about a
woman who made lampshades out of Jewish skin.
I leaned much later in my life, that her name was Ilsa Koch. She served in a concentration camp.
That story scared the crap out of Allan. Me too!
We were about eight or nine years old at the time.
This kind of insistence on "never again" damaged both of us.
To be in a constant state of defense mode can create an overly fearful society.
Being careful is important. Becoming overly careful is bad for children of any race or origin.
Just yesterday I was speaking to a man whose is half Jewish and half Muslim.
Imagine that? This is for real! I told him about the controversy RE key versus key card.
His opinion was it is a trifling matter.
He described himself as a spiritual person who respects all religious beliefs.
While he understands any differences between them he sees the unified path each seeks towards the Divine Creator.
The arguing over details should not block that path.
I was raised in a Catholic home, but I do not believe that the only way to Heaven or Paradise is through Jesus Christ.
That no longer makes me a Catholic.
To me religion is just a language one uses to try to speak with G-d. Which ever one you choose, G-d is certainly multi lingual.
Enough with this , "mine is the only way" crap!
Maybe George the atheist is right. There is no God. No one is listening.
On Nitsche's tombstone isn't it written, "God is dead"?
On that cynical note, I leave you.
Even the TV series, "Star Trek"acknowledges the idea, "....for the good of the whole...".
They key card WILL NOT burn a hole in your hand. Why should the rest of the building complex have to bend to your tyrannical demands?
Yes, TYRANNICAL! This is the same kind of rule game that despots impose.
Get over the "Chosen People" attitude. We are all CHOSEN to be one with each other.
On Nitsche's [sic] tombstone isn't it written, "God is dead"?
No. Check it out here.
where is the best place now to get drugs on 57th Avenue ?, Lefrak City
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