From the Daily News:Of the top 20 overtime earners from the start of the year through Aug. 31, 13 have already matched or exceeded their base salaries.
Twelve of the top overtime earners work at state psychiatric hospitals. Five work at state prisons. Two others work at state-run facilities for the mentally disabled. Another big earner works at a SUNY-run hospital.
While OT is a distant memory for many private-sector workers, total overtime pay for state workers is up a hefty 8% so far this year over last - despite Gov. Paterson's vow to rein it in.
Through the end of last month, the state had doled out a whopping $299.4 million in extra pay, up $22.4 million from the same period last year, according to the controller's figures.
Erik Kriss, a spokesman for the governor's budget division, blamed budget cutbacks for the OT increases. He said state agencies have to do more with less staff.
26 comments:
There should NEVER be anything like OT pay. You are responsible for doing your duties on time and manage your time carefully so that you do not have to do any OT.
In Germany, if you do OT, it means you are a disgrace and look down upon indirectly because you do not know how to manage your time well to get things done during the allocated time, which is true.
People need to manage their time. What kind of workers are they. I see MTA and government workers walked slower than a snail to get something done. My kid can crawl a lot faster than them.
In USA, OT means more slack off time so more money. I can't believe how stupid the US system is..and I'm not even German.
There are a lot of MTA employees who don't get overtime and aren't eligible for comp time if they work more than 9 to 5.
So the MTA employees are a disgrace when they have to remove trees and fix the tracks during horrible storms all through the night?
Right on, so you if don't want to be treated like disgraces then have the standard night crew try to do the repairs after a horrible storm and let the M train and LIRR be down for a week.
Do you know how many managers for the city work 60-80 hour weeks and get no compensation?
But their is heavy abuse in the uniformed agencies, like police and sanitation.
"Do you know how many managers for the city work 60-80 hour weeks and get no compensation"
It seems like there is heavy abuse of these managers. Is their 40 hours worth the same as their 80 hours? Only if you think they are pieces of shit whose time is not worth anything.
To the first poster. Your logic shows a lack of understanding of a common source of overtime: doing OTHER peoples jobs. If an employee completes his/her workday, and someone calls in sick for the next shift, that shift must be covered. If the first employee elects to work that shift, he is compensated with overtime. Do you expect someone to do that for free?
An employee is home on their day off. They get a call, we are short staffed, can you come in to cover a shift? That employees is also entitled to overtime pay.
Your assertion that there should NEVER be overtime pay also shows a misunderstanding of the nature of certain jobs. Bus drivers and train operators are restricted by the schedules set for them and the routes they operate. They have an obligation to the public to do the job SAFELY, not to get it done in a certain amount of time at whatever cost. Do you want the people repairing your bus/train/plane rushing through their jobs so they are finished in the allotted time regardless of what corners may be cut?
yay Unions!!!!
"Do you want the people repairing your bus/train/plane rushing through their jobs so they are finished in the allotted time regardless of what corners may be cut?"
Actually this doesn't matter, they are paid by the hour and it's set at the maximum hour level. So if it's 10 hours max, they will charge you 10 hours even if it takes only 5 hours.
If fixing is their job (without many other multiple projects on their plate like in the private sector), then they SHOULD be able to completed it on time unless there is some other emergency that pull them away. But in that case that emergency should NOT be charged within that 10 hours.
If they cannot get it done in that time on that task alone, they are incompetent..or slacker.
Don't tell me that there are traffic or rush hours etc. That is part of life. Your job is to get from point A to point B and I pay you for that duty or task. I do not pay you by the hour as you can slack off, got play for 1 hour and slowly do your work.
That's how it should work. And if I do pay you by the hour, and if you don't get it done within reasonable time, you don't have my business again.
You might be a government employee or whatever and therefore think in terms of their perspective who are RECEIVING the paycheck.
But if you start thinking of it in terms of the perspective that of YOU having to pay for these OT workers who is doing your house or yard, vechicle, you will know it all make sense.
You wouldn't want to pay extra money for slackers or incompetent people, will you? Or will you pay for flat amount for the job done instead of per hour? If you pay per hour, you have to monitor term so they don't slack.
"If you pay per hour, you have to monitor term so they don't slack."
I meant "If you pay them per hour, you will have to monitor them to make sure they don't slack off".
Anyways, there are a lot of grammatical errors and misspelling above, because I got too carried away for the abusers of OT in the unions and government agency. But I'm sure it got the point across.
I am a worker (in the private sector), not a slacker. My boss does not have any issue or complaint with my work pace, ever. The fact is work loads vary and more work can be assigned than can be completed within the standard work hours.
If you send your hourly employee to NJ everyday and one day there is an accident on the bridge and there is a 2 hour delay returning, do you expect that employee to return at the usual time? Do you expect that employee to not get paid for those 2 extra hours while he is working for you?
If the UN general assembly is in town and there are major street closures and frozen zones, do you expect people working in that area (delivery, repair men etc)to not be affected?
The UPS driver normally has 60 stops, but it is the holidays season so he now has 85 stops. Is it reasonable to expect him to finish in the same amount of time?
I am not advocating paying people to slack off. The idea that working people do not encounter situations that extend job times (and lead to overtime) is unrealistic.
"If fixing is their job (without many other multiple projects on their plate like in the private sector), then they SHOULD be able to completed it on time unless there is some other emergency that pull them away. But in that case that emergency should NOT be charged within that 10 hours."
I'm confused. Are you saying if you pull your employee away to work on something else (an emergency) those hours should not be counted as work hours?
The time it "should" take to do something does not always translate into the time it actually takes. Perhaps a piece of equipment breaks down, or a wrong part is sent by a supplier, or upon inspection more work is needed that initially expected. These situation translate into delays, and they are not the fault of the employee.
"Don't tell me that there are traffic or rush hours etc. That is part of life."
Exactly. Then you should understand that it does not take the exact same time to get from point A to point B every day. That is a fact of life.
i observed the D.O.T. asphalt a five block avenue recently. from 9-11 :15 am ,there was no laying of the material. the material was put on one block and by 11;45, it was lunch break.
the workers parked their cars on the sidewalks and center grass/dirt malls.
they had to jump the curbs ,which the d.o.b. refused to repair prior to asphalting the avenue.
many d.o.t. vehicles but very little work by employees. the street now is even with the curbs. FLOODING...FLOODING....FLOODING.....
"If you send your hourly employee to NJ everyday and one day there is an accident on the bridge and there is a 2 hour delay returning, do you expect that employee to return at the usual time? Do you expect that employee to not get paid for those 2 extra hours while he is working for you?"
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Actually, the hourly employee should NOT get paid for those 2 hours. It's the hours that get the work done at the place, not the 2 hours in traffic to work. Everyone commutes an hour in NYC to work, so the employers suppose to pay for that hourly time to work?
It's absurd that you actually say that because as far as I can tell, everyone would love to have the kind of 2 delay so they get 2 hours more pay. If you are the person paying for this employee, you only want to pay for hours of actual work and if you are paying for his commute time, you pay for the average commute time; NOT something like rare accident events or like when the tornado hits last time and he get 4 hrs extra pay just for staying stuck in traffic. I pay him to do work and the average commute time, not stuck in traffic which is out of everyone control and therefore not billable.
"Actually, the hourly employee should NOT get paid for those 2 hours. It's the hours that get the work done at the place, not the 2 hours in traffic to work. Everyone commutes an hour in NYC to work, so the employers suppose to pay for that hourly time to work? "
I think he was refering to times after the employee reports to work, sees a client in NJ, and gets stuck in traffic on the way back. And yes, the deserve to get paid.
The UPS driver normally has 60 stops, but it is the holidays season so he now has 85 stops. Is it reasonable to expect him to finish in the same amount of time?
IF HE IS PAID BY SALARY, THERE SHOULD BE NO OVERTIME PAY, ONLY BONUS. BUT IF HE IS PAID BY HOUR, AND HE NOW HAS 25 MORE STOPS, HE SHOULD GET PAID ACCORDINGLY.
I am not advocating paying people to slack off. The idea that working people do not encounter situations that extend job times (and lead to overtime) is unrealistic.
THAT IS TRUE, BUT IF YOU ARE SALARIED, YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO GET THE JOB DONE NO MATTER WHAT, THUS NO OT, ONLY BONUS. IF YOU ARE HOURLY THEN IT SUCKS TO BE THE PERSON PAYING.
"If fixing is their job (without many other multiple projects on their plate like in the private sector), then they SHOULD be able to completed it on time unless there is some other emergency that pull them away. But in that case that emergency should NOT be charged within that 10 hours."
I'm confused. Are you saying if you pull your employee away to work on something else (an emergency) those hours should not be counted as work hours?
NO, WHAT I MEAN IS THAT THE EMPLOYEE IS SUPPOSE TO BE FIXING THIS FOR 10 HOURS. BUT YOU PULL HIM AWAY TO DO SOMETHING UNRELATED IN THE MIDDLE ,SAY AT HIS 3RD HOUR. YOU THEN PAY HIM HOURLY ON THAT NEW TASK (SAY 2 HOURS..SO YOU PAY HIM 2 HOURS ON THAT). HE THEN COMES BACK AND WORK ON THIS FIRST TASK AGAIN. HE ONLY HAS REMAINING 7 HOURS ON THIS FIRST TASK. (BARRING ANY TRAVEL, BREAK TIME, ETC). IF HE EXCEEDS THIS 7 HOURS, HE SHOULD NOT BE PAID FOR OT.
THINK HOW IT WILL SUCK FOR YOU IF YOU HAVE TO PAY A MECHANIC OR CONTRACTOR OR HOME RENOVATOR THAT BILLS OT TO YOU, THEN YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT.
I think he was refering to times after the employee reports to work, sees a client in NJ, and gets stuck in traffic on the way back. And yes, the deserve to get paid.
HMM. THAT IS INTERESTING CASE. BUT THEN I STILL DON'T THINK GETTING STUCK IN TRAFFIC SHOULD BE GETTING PAID FOR, OTHERWISE YOU ARE JUST LIKE A TAXI DRIVER WANTING TO DRIVE THE LONG ROUTE ON PUPROSE AND GOT STUCK IN THE LONG ROUTE. WHO KNOWS. IF THE CLIENT DELAYS YOU SUCH AS PESTERING YOU WITH QUESTIONS OR JUST SLOW, THAT THAT IS FINE TO BE BILLED BECAUSE YOU ARE WORKING WITH HIM DURING THAT TIME.
SO I MEAN, IF YOU SAY GETTING STUCK IN TRAFFIC IS PART OF THE HOURLY BILL, AGAIN THINK OF YOUR MECHANIC, OR CONTRACTOR STILL BILLING YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF WORKING ON YOUR CAR WHEN HE WAS 'STUCK' IN TRAFFIC. SO YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY HIM EXTRA HOURS FOR THE HOURS NOT WORKING ON YOUR CAR OR YOUR YARD?
i observed the D.O.T. asphalt a five block avenue recently. from 9-11 :15 am ,there was no laying of the material. the material was put on one block and by 11;45, it was lunch break.
many d.o.t. vehicles but very little work by employees. the street now is even with the curbs. FLOODING...FLOODING....FLOODING.....
SEE, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY NEEDLESS OVERTIME HOURS. LUNCH SHOULD NOT BE BILL AS OT. THESE PEOPLE ARE ABUSING OT HOURS.
No, SHOUTER, it is like your (metered) taxi driver getting stuck in traffic while you are in route to the airport (or wherever). Yes you DO have to pay for this.
If you have hourly employees who makes deliveries or repair things at various locations (ex. elevators)their travel times from site to site are times working. Driving in this case is part of the work. I am not referring to the commute to/from work before the work day, it is pretty ridiculous for you to think that.
You seem to think it is OK to give people more work without them being compensated for it. That is fine, you are entitled to do that, but what you end up with is bitter workers who will try and screw you over whenever they can (because they themselves are getting screwed) and high employee turnover. From your tone, it sounds like you are used to this experience.
SEE, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY NEEDLESS OVERTIME HOURS. LUNCH SHOULD NOT BE BILL AS OT. THESE PEOPLE ARE ABUSING OT HOURS.
How do you know that lunch is billed as OT? How do you know that they are putting in for any OT at all? Sounds like a regular work day, not OT hours. Unless you work for the DOT or know one of these workers personally, you don't know, you are just assuming.
Labor laws REQUIRE employees to take lunch (and breaks also I think). It is the employers responsibility to make sure that employees take lunch. Lunch is generally not counted as part of the hours worked.
You seem to think it is OK to give people more work without them being compensated for it. That is fine, you are entitled to do that, but what you end up with is bitter workers who will try and screw you over whenever they can (because they themselves are getting screwed) and high employee turnover. From your tone, it sounds like you are used to this experience.
FIRST, I HAVE NO TONE NOR AM I SHOUTING . I'M USING CAPITAL LETTERS NOT TO 'SHOUT' LIKE YOU ASSUME, BUT TO SEPARATE THE PREVIOUS QUOTES BY OTHER POSTERS AND MINE REPLIES. IF YOU TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS, THEN I WILL TYPE IN LOWER CASE LETTER. IT'S EASIER ON THE PERSON EYES TO SEE THE REPLY VS THE PREVIOUS POST.
SECOND NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEAN. YOU NEED A SYSTEM TO STOP OT HOURS ABUSERS. IF YOU FLY FROM CALIFORNIA TO HERE AND SAY IT TAKE 6 HOURS, YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE BILLED AT 6 HOURS, EVEN IF IT MEANS DELAYS IN THE AIRPORT, AND IF YOU ARRIVED LATE TO THE AIRPORT AND MISS THE FLIGHT, IT'S YOUR PROBLEM.
IF THE TIME LIKE TRAVEL TO THE AIRPORT OR PLACES TO DO WORK IS REQUIRED AND THE PERSON IS BILLED HOURLY, THEY ARE TO BE BILLED BY AT A CALCULATED REASONABLE TIME. IF IT TAKES 1 HOUR TO GET HERE TO LGA, THEN BILL AT 1 HOUR, NO MORE, NO LESS. IF YOU GET THERE 30 MINUTES, IT'S YOUR GAIN, BUT IF IT TAKE MORE TIME LIKE TRAFFIC, IT'S YOUR LOST. THAT WAY THERE IS NO WAY TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM.
SO IN YOUR CASE, YOU ARE SAYING IT'S OK TO PAY YOUR MECHANIC 2 EXTRA HOURS OF LABOR BECAUSE HE SAY HE HAS TRAVEL FROM HIS PLACE TO ANOTHER PLACE TO GET THE PART AND IT'S 2 HOURS TO GET THERE DUE TO TRAFFIC WHEN IT'S ONLY SUPPOSE TO BE 10 MINUTES. (OR THE PARTS ARRIVED 2 HOURS LATE). HE CAN BILL YOU LIKE CRAZY.
NO WONDER THE STATE IS OUT OF FUND. IT'S BECAUSE OF THESE EASILY ABUSED SYSTEMS THAT THEY HAVE TO COUGH UP EXTRA MONEY.
Labor laws REQUIRE employees to take lunch (and breaks also I think). It is the employers responsibility to make sure that employees take lunch. Lunch is generally not counted as part of the hours worked.
OOPS. THAT WAS MY BAD. I DIDN'T MEAN TO TYPE LUNCH. WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO IS WHAT IF THEY PUT IN LUNCH AS OT. NOW THAT IS ABUSING THE SYSTEM.
IT SAYS IT'S FROM 9 TO 11:15 AM, BUT WHY DID THEY START AT 11:45 AND ONLY DONE 1 BLOCK IN 3 HOURS. MAYBE THEY HAVE TO ANALYZE, MAYBE THE HAVE TO SEE IF ENOUGH MATERIALS ARE THERE. I DON'T KNOW. THEY CAN GIVE ANY REASON AND IF THEY ARE PAID HOURLY OR WITH OT, THEY ARE ABUSING THE SYSTEM AND GET PAID MORE. IF THEY ARE PAID SALARIED OR IF THEY PAID BY THE NUMBER OF BLOCKS THEY CAN COVER, YOU MIGHT GET THE JOB DONE BY 11AM. DON'T YOU SEE WHERE THIS IS GOING.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THE DOT IS ABUSING THE SYSTEM. I'M USING THIS AS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY THINGS GET DELAY AND STILL HAVE TO PAY BIG BUCKS. MAYBE THEY DON'T GET PAID OT. BUT WHAT IF THEY DID.
you stated "THESE PEOPLE ARE ABUSING OT HOURS." without knowing whether this is the case or not.
Your other argument is comparing apples to oranges. I am talking about full time (or even part time) employees, and you are giving examples for individual contract jobs (like the mechanic fixing your car).
If you own a garage and employ full time mechanics, and you send one of your mechanics across town to get a part, you as the employer are liable to pay for that. The employee is following the employers direction during work hours. If the total hours that the employee works is over 40 hours, he/she is entitled to OT pay for those extra hours. This is not arbitrary, it is in the Federal labor law. It us up to the manager to either limit the employees hours to under 40, or properly compensate for any hours over 40.
An employee that goofs off or doesn't perform adequately is a different issue from how he should be paid. This issue can be addressed through disciplinary action up to and including termination. This is where management's responsibility comes into play.
Back to the original point I made to the original commenter, there are acceptable reasons for overtime pay. When the boss wants the employee to stay extra hours or work an extra shift to cover a labor shortage, and these hours exceed 40 per week, OT is required.
"Do you know how many managers for the city work 60-80 hour weeks and get no compensation?"
Managers are MANAGEMENT. They CHOSE that position BECAUSE they must do more than 40 hours per week. They KNEW this before they went into it. The are not craft. They are not technicians. They are not specialists. They are not skilled laborers. They are not trained for anything except to push paper and fudge numbers and lie in order to keep their sorry-assed positions. THEY ARE MANAGERS.
If you do not get this concept, you are as lost as Bush, Cheney, Bloomberg, Quinn and the rest of the SCUM that have destroyed this country, this city and our children's future.
E 'vero! Ottima idea, condivido.
Assolutamente d'accordo con lei. Mi piace questa idea, sono pienamente d'accordo con te.
Con chi stai parlando?
"Overtime" has almost disappeared from the private sector because it doesn't make sense to assign more than 40 hours of work to employees. The reason it continues in the public sector is because it is manipulated to increase compensation. To get rid of it, you would have to get rid of the whole sense of entitlement public sector employees have.
And nothing signifies lame and immature in blog comments better than using the caps lock key.
And nothing signifies lame and immature in blog comments better than using the caps lock key.
THAT IS YOUR OPINION. NOTHING SIGNFIES A SHOW OF DISREPECT TO OTHER COMMENTERS, SELFISHNESS, DISORGANIZATION BY A COMMENTER IF THEY DON'T SEPARATE EARLIER QUOTES AND THEIR OWN REPLIE, BECAUSE THEY CARELESS ABOUT MAKING IT EASIER ON OTHER READERS OF COMMENTS. AT LEAST A SIMPLE " " SYSTEM AROUND THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS WILL SUFFICE.
BUT CAPS ARE MUCH EASIER ONLY SEPARATE THE EARLIER COMMENTS AND MY REPLIES. IF I WANTED TO YELL, I WOULD USE BOLD FACE.
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