The Greater Astoria Historical Society and the community of Long Island City/Astoria, are concerned about the safety of the historic millstones located at Queens Plaza.
Hidden in plain site, the two millstones, some say, date from the 1600's and are the oldest European artifacts in Queens. The city’s recent stewardship has not been very good. Photos over time show significant wear and tear to their fabric. Recently, a multimillion-dollar renovation at the Plaza has dropped them from view and construction debris litters the site.
The New York Daily News covered the issue:
Ancient millstones grist for historians$43M Queens Plaza face-lift hits the fast lane
Colonial-era millstones in danger at Queens Plaza construction site, preservationists peeved
We ask the city to support the community’s heritage by:
- Making the millstones available to the community by moving them from the hazards of a construction site to an exhibit space at the Greater Astoria Historical Society (or another location within the local neighborhood) where they will be not only safe, and on display, but accessible to the public along with an exhibit outlining their history.
- Making the millstones available to historians and scholars to conduct research (during the period while they are out of the ground), and to support efforts to make them official New York City Designated Landmarks.
- Open the millstones’ permanent installation process by selecting a location that will not only ensure their preservation within the community with an installation that will be marked with appropriate signage.
The Greater Astoria Historical Society, which not only has assumed the mantel as a watchdog over the LIC–Astoria community’s heritage, but has taken a very active role in their preservation, is calling for all interested parties, from the city planning, civics, preservation experts, and, most importantly, the general public, to come to a meeting at the Greater Astoria Historical Society, 4th Floor, 35–20 Broadway, LIC, at 6:30 PM on Wednesday, November 18, 2009.
All opinions and suggestions are welcome. Go to www.astorialic.org for additional information and pictures. Questions? Call 718–278–0700 or email astorialic@gmail.com.
32 comments:
Didn't we have a meeting earlier in November to preserve the Millstone? Oh wait, that was election day sorry
I thought it was the Millsteins of Independance Plaza.
Don't we have better things to worry about than some stones?
This is a bit one-sided.
What did you do to provoke this? Are you current in your rent payments? Are you abiding by the lease terms? Willing to bet money that there is another less favorable side of this story. Count on QC to pass off such one sided drivle as news and then deride the NYT and other papers for not having any journalistic integrity.
Whose dopey idea in the first place was it to put the millstones in the sidewalk?
Ah, it seems our friends in the eastern part of the borough are up to their usual tricks, taking advantage of clueless locals to spirit them away to their neck of the woods.
Gotta keep those knuckle dragging drowling neantherthals in western Queens in place, eh?
Whose dopey idea in the first place was it to put the millstones in the sidewalk?
Ans:
Not clear, but we think it that the late great Long Island Savings Bank had a hand in it.
We are inviting everyone to come forward and give us suggestions. Its about time those with ideas meet face to face with our community and and not only share them with us, but be willing to work with the community.
We have been on record since at least 2001 expressing concern that this very thing would happen when construction starts.
One thing is clear.
The stewardship of these stones under the city has not been good - they have decayed a great deal over recent decades.
NY Times Jul 2001
by Eric Baard
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/15/nyregion/neighborhood-report-long-island-city-millstones-lift-spirits-queens-plaza.html
The Department of City Planning, in cooperation with other city agencies, plans to raise them from their plain-sight hiding places and to make them the centerpieces of a new garden on the site. The proposal has aroused excitement, along with a little fretting that the embedded stones, once raised, could be lost by a faceless bureaucracy.
''The beauty of Queens Plaza is that you have 350 years of cutting-edge enterprise in just one spot,'' Mr. Singleton said. ''Where else in New York City do you have that?''
Count on QC to pass off such one sided drivle as news and then deride the NYT and other papers for not having any journalistic integrity.
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please refer to previous post with NYT reporting of issue.
Moron.
why not get these things in to the NY Historical society
why not get these things in to the NY Historical society
WHY
WESTERN QUEENS NOT WORTHY?
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH TRYING TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORY! IT COSTS THE COMMUNITY NOTHING, SO WHY NOT TRY?
These stones are a part of the community's history and they deserve better than to be stuck in a sidewalk! They certainly shouldn't be stuck in a construction site where one careless mistake will destroy them. These things are one-of-a-kind and when they're gone, they're gone! Too much of our history has been bulldozed in the last century, we should hold on to what's left!
Here is everything you need to know:
The public will be informed on "an as need to know" basis.
http://www.ourlic.com/news/economicdevelopment/2009/76-4-Million-Infrastructure-Improvements-in-Long-Island-City.htm
Nearly $80 million in taxpayer money:
http://www.qgazette.com/node/26584
and not $80 for an exhibit for the local kids in the community to learn about their history.
However these stones are displayed, there should be some kind of historical explanation of their significance.
The Trolley Barn on Northern Boulevard and Woodside Avenue was saved from the bulldozer in the late l980's. The main entrance is now a Pizza Hut. But do you see any kind of explanatory signage today as to its historical significance? Noooooo.
November 6, 2009
Hon. Frank Padavan
New York State Senate
89-39 Gettysburg Street
Bellerose, New York 11426
Dear Senator Padavan:
Thank you for informing the Queens Historical Society of the plan to remove the grist mill stones from Queens Plaza to a temporary exhibit organized by the Greater Astoria Historical Society (GAHS).
We support this temporary plan, especially in light of current major reconstruction of Queens Plaza, and appreciate the efforts of GAHS.
Meanwhile, a permanent home or guardianship for the grist mill stones might be sought among several cultural institutions that are emerging or already flourishing in the Queens Plaza vicinity.
Not far away, in the Court Square area, two established institutions might be considered: P.S. 1 Contemporary Art Center (PS1.org) and the Sculpture Center (sculpture-center.org). Closer to the present site of the millstones, in the Queens Plaza area, the Long Island City Artists organization (licartists.org) has been showcasing a special exhibition at a number of modern or modernized indoor venues such as the building lobbies. One of these sites may also be suitable as a home for the grist mill stones.
Karen Fitzgerald of the LIC artists organization would be a good person to contact about this idea.
Sincerely,
Patricia Sherwood
President Pro Temps
um..isnt this Onorato's district?
Does this answer your question:
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/10/dutch-kills-funding-headscratcher.html
A tale of two cities.
To one and all,
Thank you for your interest and willingness to help. Unfortunately this has been blown out of proportion.
The following should lay this to rest, so we can go on to more important projects.
THE DUTCH KILLS CIVIC ASSOCIATION HAS BEEN IN THE PROCESS OF THIS PROJECT SINCE THE DESIGN STAGE AND DEMANDED THAT THE GRIST STONES BE PROTECTED AND REMAIN WITHIN THE PROJECT IN DUTCH KILLS.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS PLANED.
MS. PENNY LEE OF THE DCP HAS INFORMED US THAT AN ARCHEOLOGIST SUGGESTED ONE STONE BE CRATED AND THE OTHER REMAIN IN THE PRESENT LOCATION DUE TO THE FACT IT IS CRACKED. UNNECESSARY MOVEMENT WILL CAUSE FURTHER DAMAGE TO THE CRACKED STONE AND POSSIBLY THE CRATED STONE. THE CONTRACTOR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SAFE KEEPING.
THE CRY OF "WHAT IF", CAN BE APPLIED TO ANY LOCATION IN THE CITY.
ANY FURTHER RUMORS ARE STRICTLY SELF SERVING AND NOT IN THE INTEREST OF THE GRIST STONES OR THE DUTCH KILLS COMMUNITY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST.
George L. Stamatiades
Executive Director
Dutch Kills Civic Association of Long Island City
"Fee fi fo fum...I smell the blood of Shulman.
Be she alive or be she dead...I'll grind her bones to make my bread"!
I think that Jack's giant has come up with a good use for these millstones...no?
I beleive this thread exposes a lot of what is pathological about preservation and civic involvment in this city.
A perfectly good idea is undermined by community backbiting, stupidity and government arrogance.
There is no excuse for any of this. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Stay the course guys - you are doing the right thing. Someday it will all come out and you will be honored for those things you are doing.
I dont' care what the Gazette says. Your community is behind you.
"AN ARCHEOLOGIST SUGGESTED ONE STONE BE CRATED AND THE OTHER REMAIN IN THE PRESENT LOCATION DUE TO THE FACT IT IS CRACKED. UNNECESSARY MOVEMENT WILL CAUSE FURTHER DAMAGE TO THE CRACKED STONE AND POSSIBLY THE CRATED STONE. THE CONTRACTOR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SAFE KEEPING."
Did the archaeologist mention anything about how being in a construction zone is beneficial to the stones? Is it the proximity to heavy,vibrating equipment that is good for them? or is it just the possibility of being bumped and jostled in a construction area that is so good for them? Please explain the reasoning here. If the stones are moved correctly, (and it isn't rocket-science to do so) there will be no damage to them, and they will be available to exhibit for the enrichment and benefit of all - SCHOOL CHILDREN INCLUDED. It kills 2 birds with one stone. AND, they'll be returned when the city wants them for their new home.
BTW, how long before this new place is ready for them? The longer they are on site, the more likely something will go bad. AND WHEN THEY'RE GONE, THEY'RE GONE.
As to the contractor's responsability, what are the details? How are they insured? How was the replacement value of irreplaceable artifacts arrived at?
Moving these stones is prudent and do-able and makes them available for serious study and public exhibit at the same time. What is self-serving about that? You should be happy someone is willing to help.
I definately think there's too much gasoline in the DK water supply.
That was the only civic in all NY that wants to upzone!!!!
As a matter of fact, they are always ready for a quote on the merits of upzoning.
City Planning works with them.
Queens papers ready to quote them.
And there is that delightful little issue of the $20,000 in taxpayers money they got from Onorato.
Lets keep tabs on how they spend it....
What the hell is going on here? It looks like a damn circus.
This is not an issue about Dutch Kills. Do they own these? I don't think so.
This is about our heritage. Its city property.
Those of us in LIC have no idea about this. What is needed is more input.
they will be available to exhibit for the enrichment and benefit of all - SCHOOL CHILDREN INCLUDED.
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what a novel idea! kids! you mean they are useful for something besides a photo op?
Hell, if the schools are already overcrowded in western Queens, and we are planning for thousands more people AND NO DISCUSSION OF BUILDING MORE SCHOOLS, do you think showing kids millstones would be any interest to the powers that be?
Get real!!
do you think showing kids millstones would be any interest to the powers that be?
Gee, lets just stop teaching them then! Why try to make the best of a poor situation? Lets all just give up.
YOU GET REAL!
Hmmm...Overcrouded schools, no mention of building more....
What has that got to do with anything? The exhibit wouldn't cost the city a dime.
The Society is proposing to use the time that the stones are out of the ground (and out of sight and in possible danger in a construction zone) to make a TEMPORARY educational exhibit of them, and also to have them examined by professionals for the FIRST TIME. They are trying to do something good for the community, to leave a better legacy to the future...and in return they have to listen to a lot on nonsensical static.
Way to go!
Hmmm...Overcrouded schools, no mention of building more....
What has that got to do with anything? The exhibit wouldn't cost the city a dime.
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Because in western Queens they are all obsessed with only development. If they wanted to build a 15 story building everyone would be tripping over each other to help them with all sorts of 'resources'.
This?
A waste of 'resources'.
If they get the stones, the society will have to pay for it out of their own pockets.
with all RESPECT,and I truly mean it... BUT,these are the millstones ?
i can't stop laughing---looks like more queens crap.
thought it was part of the bs for queens plaza's rejuvenation back then--lines drawn in wet cement- !.
"thought it was part of the bs for queens plaza's rejuvenation back then--lines drawn in wet cement- !."
THANK YOU, FOR ILLUSTRATING THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS DISCUSSION:
If the city had bothered to take care of them properly and put them in a museum, or at least on a public display with some EDUCATIONAL information about them, then you would have known exactly what they were.
They are granite millstones used to grind grain into flour in a tidal mill that was built in Dutch Kills c. 1650.
They are a valuable pieces of our history and should never have been in a sidewalk. They are nearly ruined at this point and should be studied while there is still time.
Right now, there is an opportunity to do so while they are "in-between" homes.
"thought it was part of the bs for queens plaza's rejuvenation back then--lines drawn in wet cement- !."
THANK YOU FOR SUMMING UP THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS DISCUSSION:
These stones never belonged in a sidewalk. If the city had put them in a museum where they belong, or at least in a public display which included some EDUCATIONAL information about them, you would have known that they are stones from a tidal mill built in the DK area c. 1650. You would know that they are irreplaceable pieces of our history and deserve to be treated as such.
Right now they are in-between permanent homes and out of sight. As an educational resource they are being wasted. We can take this opportunity to put them on display at GAHS and also have them studied by professionals. It's a good idea.
Hi, I stumbled across your sight by accident, and being in the windmill/watermill business, I thought I would throw in my three-happence worth. If you can identify the type of stone you should be able to tell the age, and where it was made(and maybe even the man who made it). If they are about 6feet across, and domed on the back they might be 18th century, if they are about 4'6" across they are probably later. Either way from my point of view, they are worth saving, but there were, and still are quite a few around, especially here in the U.K.
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