BROOKLYN:Councilman David Yassky (D-DUMBO), who has opposed the project from the start, called McCullough's support "a big development."
"I call it visual vandalism, and we ought not to let it happen," said David McCullough, who wrote "The Great Bridge," a book on the building of the historic span.
"We would not stand back and say it's a fine idea to put an 18-story tower right beside the Washington Monument," McCullough added.
"Would Paris allow a developer to put an 18-story tower beside Notre Dame?"
QUEENS:Mr. Gioia said the Silvercup West plan is made possible by a mayoral administration with a grand vision for the waterfront and the removal of the political hurdles that stymie much of New York's development.
A professor of urban planning at New York University, Mitchell Moss, said that previous plans for the site lacked creativity.
"That site has been ripe for renewal for 30 years," Mr. Moss said. "But this is the first time that we're finally dealing with ideas and a design that will work on that portion of the Queens waterfront."
Preservationists have also gone apeshit over the Brooklyn plan. They have stayed eerily silent on the much larger Queens project, however. What gives?
55 comments:
I am a big fan of David McCullough, but to answer his question, "Would Paris allow a developer to put an 18-story tower beside Notre Dame?", I think the answer is.... maybe. They did allow a crappy triangular glass pyramid to be dropped in front of the Louvre.
To answer your questoin about Queens:
1. Who cares about 2nd rate pols running 3rd rate programs? Queens, like N Korea, is in its own orbit.
2. Image: who cares about Archie and Ugly?
3. Leadership: take a look at who its leadership is in preservation: the home of the 4 boro concept and QCC? MP, SC, JK, JG, PG ... had enough? Any stars in that line up?
4. Evolution: in the shark infested waters of public discourse, your poverty? stupidity? [put your word here] is someone else's windfall. Neaderthals and similiar back thinkers just cannot compete.
5. Public Education: why waste your time on losers that don't even know they are being ripped off?
This is not fair. Why do we lose our waterfront in Queens and Brooklyn and Manahattan gets a public park?
We are being walled off from the city, both physically and psycologically.
Why is the interests of people who don't even live here more important than those that have put roots down for years in our communities?
Why is the interests of people who don't even live here more important than those that have put roots down for years in our communities?
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I don't have an answer, but perhaps you should ask
1. Community boards 1 and 2
2. Elected officials (starting with CITY COUNCIL and working your way up to God - not the other way around)
3. Newspapers, local and daily.
Wow, this touches a nerve and exposes the difference between planning, landmarking, and community preservation in general between Queens and everywhere else.
I find it ironic that the borough with the greatest number of planned communities and model housing in the country is now the step child of New York.
How did this happen?
That is easy. Take examples from history.
The Middle East, China, all these regions at one time led the planet in sophistication ... and are in the process of emerging from neglect from generations of decline.
I think if you examine how they fell, and compare that to Queens of today, you can get a better picture as to why Queens is just beginning this cycle: falling from sophistication into neglect ... and its prospects for reversing this are just about nill in our lifetimes.
You've got to be kidding trying to compare these two. The LIC development would be amazing, would not detract from a world-famous, historic, iconic bridge, and would open a now-closed waterfront to the public. This is just more ridiculous nonsense from Crapper.
The LIC development would be amazing, would not detract from a world-famous, historic, iconic bridge, and would open a now-closed waterfront to the public.
um ... thanks ... I know, it Queens ... so reality, truth, and justice is created out of the airy thoughts of a developer.
If we can give a tax subsidy to Mr Suna, why can't we just use the taxes to buy the land.
Add up the benefit to the public (not Suna) for this 'public access job creation project.'
Now give me a price tag to the value of my 7 year old son playing in a public park. Add on his friends.
Add on his kids. His grandkids ....
The LIC development would be amazing, would not detract from a world-famous, historic, iconic bridge, and would open a now-closed waterfront to the public.
1. it will. the sound would be reflected on Queensbridge thowing the worlds largest housing project in constanst noise and shadow.
2. 1000s of people at this one location, added to the 10,000s of people on the rest of Vernon, would make this a traffic nightmare.
3. the 5 story wall planned at steet level is a real improvement over seeing the Manahattan skyline through a chain link fence.
4. the 4 foot wide 'public access' on the other side of a number of 50 story buildings is a hell of a lot better than a public park.
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write." - John Adams, 1765
This is just more ridiculous nonsense from Crapper.
I want to hear from Historic Disricts Council, the Municipal Art Society, Landmarks Conservensy why this is acceptable?
why they are fighting for one borough and ignoring the other?
and if we cannot get a good answer, why anyone from Queens should donate money to them.
How is the debate going on astorians.com about this?
liqshitty about this?
queenswest about this?
funny ....
Isn't this Greater Astoria's territory? What did they do about it?
I was worried that this would get shelved. Glad it back on track! Don't understand why people are so in love with areas that are in neglect. No give a rats ass about them, but try to return it to productive use and all of a sudden everyone is interested. Well F off it not your property. For gods sakes building a school is not even a slam dunk. You people are unbelievable
Worried that what would get shelved? Suna's not building anything anytime soon. As for the Brooklyn project, they need a zoning change to build it which is in no way guaranteed.
How come the Greater Astoria Hysterical Society has remained mute on the subject?
Shouldn't they be in the vanguard
opposing this eyesore?
the water front in queens is shit - i've lived there long enough to know...i run along it every day.
you could vomit on the sidewalk and it would be an improvement.
onward!
the water front in queens is shit - i've lived there long enough to know...i run along it every day.
you could vomit on the sidewalk and it would be an improvement.
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I LIVE in Queensbridge. You are a prick.
Where you from?
Hey fellows, we are running a historical society.
Cool.
Hell, why stop with a two bit outfit like Astoria. I want Queens Historical Society.
Interesting posts.
So why is a building in Brooklyn half the size of a similar project ok in Queens, but an eyesore in Brooklyn?
Where you from?
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Sounds like eastern Queens.
Every time a tree falls in Alley Park its headlines. Millions spent on Ft Totten.
Not a dime for LIC.
I do not understand how Silvercup was able to build something like that project.
We used to have three hospitals in western Queens. Now we have one very overcrowded facility.
I want to hear from Historic Disricts Council, the Municipal Art Society, Landmarks Conservensy why this is acceptable?
why they are fighting for one borough and ignoring the other?
and if we cannot get a good answer, why anyone from Queens should donate money to them.
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Good point.
In Brooklyn we have a strong sense of community and first rate institutions.
We fight for our neighbors.
Believe me, if you shut down a firehouse or hospital people would complain very loudly.
In Queens you accept anything that you are told. Everything is run through your Borough Hall.
Does that answer your question?
CB1 the community board from hell!
"In Broklyn, community access is important; a greenbelt is planned for the river's banks.
The Bronx waterfront, once lost to industry, also has groups dedicated to waterfront conservation.
Manhattan balances development with access.
In Queens, with a few notable exceptions, the waterfront is given over to power plants and private developers."
The East River
Arcadia Press
fair statements? if so, how? if not, how not?
Anonymous said...
You've got to be kidding trying to compare these two. The LIC development would be amazing, would not detract from a world-famous, historic, iconic bridge, and would open a now-closed waterfront to the public. This is just more ridiculous nonsense from Crapper.
Tuesday, April 07, 2009
wow biggie your spreading your wings to other developments now
At least we get sore throats yelling loud enough to make a fearful noise in northeast Queens....followed by a lot of damn hard work!
That's why our nabe's held up for years.
You westerners are good at pounding your keyboards and, apparently, little else.
I guess words come a lot easier than real commitment!
Oh it sounds like that BS slinger again.
He wouldn't even defend his ravy/fave the Bowne House because it was too far away from where he resides.
He just presented marching orders to
his "militiamen" out east!
Another legend in his own mind, I suppose.
Stop passing the buck old boy to HDC, MAS and the rest of alphabet soup preservation land.
COMMITMENT BEGINS AT HOME....
right at the front door of The Greater Astoria Historical Society!
At least we get sore throats yelling loud enough to make a fearful noise in northeast Queens....followed by a lot of damn hard work!
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Yea, we had an interesting post about Ft Totten last week. Was that a site on the underground railroad too?
Everyone, from city planning, Peter Vallone, to rabid anti-developers have spoken at Astoria Historical's Long Island City Forum.
They are all treated fairly and respectfully and given every opportunity to state their case to the community.
If more places would give people opportunities like that we would have a better city.
Its up to the public to decide, in the words of Edward Hart (since you bring up Bowne House) to 'rise or fall to their own master'.
"Underground railroad...Fort Totten"?
Methinks the lad is addled!
What the hell are you talking about fella?
So now it's "Edward Hart"?
What happened to your logic board fella?
Nobody can follow what you're trying to say.
You're still copping out on the mandate for GAHS to take the lead on this issue old boy.
How come you won't organize a march across the bridge just for starters?
Take the lead and get visible! Scream out for justice Juniper Park Civic style. We'll join you!
I guess that organizing coffee klatch forums are much easier.
I want to hear from Historic Disricts Council, the Municipal Art Society, Landmarks Conservensy why this is acceptable?
why they are fighting for one borough and ignoring the other?
and if we cannot get a good answer, why anyone from Queens should donate money to them.
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Still not answered.
The whole Queens waterfront is severely contaminated with industrial byproducts deposited from the Civil War era on.
These poisons include antimony, lead and cadmium, heavy metals known to cause neurological damage.
If it was up to me, I would plant the whole area with trees and put fences around so that people could enjoy the view, but not enter.
Either that, or attempt to resurrect the area for its original industrial use. No one should live on such contaminated ground.
Always back to HDC and alphabet soup orgs.
WHAT ARE YOU PERSONALLY GOING TO DO TO JOIN IN ON DEFENDING YOUR OWN BOROUGH'S SUPREME ICON?
I see...nothing you lazy coward.
Passing the buck again.
The people in those other boroughs took up the banner and, thus, HDC supported them because they're real fighters!
You just want to use HDC etc. as your "gentleman's servants"
while you sip whiskey in an English club..
I am glad this thread brought things out in the open.
I think the public education forums in the community is the first place to start. Provide all perspectives. Let a thousand flowers bloom.
Remember, the mainline preservation community has all but ignored 90% of the city, neither giving them information about stuff like this (and if you can find SOMETHING, ANYTHING they published that contrasts the treatment of Brooklyn and Manhattan's waterfront with Queens, by all means post it here) or that they made a real sustained effort to get out in the hinterland (only after Crappy bashing do you see the first glimmers of this) to let people know that other options exist than what they are fed by their local leadership.
As to taking noisy groups across the bridge, a good thing if that's your thing, but I leave to the Metropolitan Waterfront Allinade or Historic Districts Council to organize.
This is not an Astoria problem. This is not a DUMBO problem.
This is a citywide problem.
What on earth are you talking about?
I'm sure that rest of our readers share my bewilderment at your obtuse statements and private conjectures.
You keep on rambling and tossing out phrases like"the mainline preservation community"etc. ad nauseum.
Please be more specific so we can...er...
follow that "thread" you've mentioned.
Nevertheless, let's put the real issue square on the line:
(For instance). Who would bear the FIRST RESPONSIBILITY
of protecting one's family?
The "Minutemen" kept their muskets by their bedside, primed and ready for action.
They DID NOT pass the buck and phone General Washington to get them out of an immediately bad situation.
You, sir (or madam), still appear to be little more than a lazy coward passing off your responsibilities for personally taking any initiative in defending the Queensboro Bridge to someone else.
You are no patriot.
Most likely your ancestors were Tories!
Since the bridge happens to be located within the Astoria/LIC environs, I believe it's primarily THEIR
responsibility to fire the fist salvo!
I also believe that HDC has already spoken out against defiling the landscape with Suna's glass towers
while GAHS has as of yet remained mute on the subject.
Maybe I'll cancel my membership.
I also believe that HDC has already spoken out against defiling the landscape with Suna's glass towers
where?
Queens, being long recognized as the most diverse county in the United States of America, gives the Queensboro Bridge prime significance as the iconic gateway of cultural infusion into NYC (if not in the entirety of America).
I do hereby propose that the Greater Astoria Historical Society take up the cause of promoting National Historic Landmark Status for the Queensboro Bridge...a designation that the Brooklyn Bridge already has.
That would put it on the same level as the Statue of Liberty.
Read their newsletters doofus!
Maybe you'll find it there!
I do hereby propose that the Greater Astoria Historical Society take up the cause of promoting National Historic Landmark Status for the Queensboro Bridge...a designation that the Brooklyn Bridge already has.
That would put it on the same level as the Statue of Liberty.
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How was it missed?
Not only is the treatment of waterfront development different, but the handling of the 100th Anniversary of Queensboro is very different from Brooklyn Bridge.
Send the link that states "HDC has already spoken out against defiling the landscape with Suna's glass towers".
HDC has already spoken out against "defiling the landscape" with Suna's glass towers
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Interesting.
Did the board at HDC authorize you to write this?
Call up HDC yourself you lazy SOB
and ask them for their position on Suna's buildings blocking the view of the QB!
I'm not your damn research assistant!
Now the ball's back in your court GAHS.
What do you intend to do about speaking out against ruining the view of the
Queensboro Bridge?
Set an example please.
Remember it's the responsibility of the mamma bear to protect her cubs or are you just an unfit mother?
Funny how most historical societies
are actually the worst custodians of history beyond the confines of their musty archives.
A member of QHS's board of trustees once confided in me that preservation (of actual sites) wasn't their real mandate.
Well...what is?
Everybody's passing the buck to somebody else.
The "preservation" community has indeed become an accomplice to the destruction of our borough's historic fabric by its continued acquiescence.
Shame on all of you!
No one knows?
That is funny. We always know when they do fund raising.
Boys! Boys! Boys! Enough of this bickering.
We may conclude a few things from this thread:
HDC (or someone else with a vested interest in maintaining this two tier system) sent their bullyboys in to break up the thread and get off topic.
They were clumsy, but they succeeded.
However they cannot erase something that is now on everyone's radar.
Once again, Courageous Crappy has provided uncontroversial evidence on something we have suspected for some time: there is a two tier system for community preservation in New York.
Every preservationist in Queens must face this.
That Four Borough Alliance was a step in the right direction, but does not go far enough.
The point most galling though, is the strong evidence that our supposed 'brothers in arms' are not only aware of this, but they have done little to vigorously clamp down on it, and perhaps, just perhaps (as evidenced by sending in their bullyboys), even abate this.
Crappy, lets revisit these many issues again and again.
Until the culprits howl.
Suggest at this point we lock this thread.
"On everyone's radar"?
Again with some more cryptic obtuse references?
What the hell are you still talking about fella?
Why "lock this thread now"?
With the Labyrinth of words (about 180) that you've just created we are certainly in need of Ariadne's thread to guide Daedelus (and our readers) out of this twisted maze!
Besides...you're the one who
first brought up this fabled "thread"..."Artful Dodd-ger" and whichever other pseudonyms you've posted under.
That still leaves the ball in GAHS' court!
We're waiting and watching.
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