People along Cooper Avenue in Glendale are not too happy with their new neighbor and the MTA for devising a plan to re-route a bus down their street to service the Atlas Park Mall:To the Rumble of Trucks, Add the Roar of Buses
Mr. O’Kane started a petition against the route change, collecting 44 signatures from Cooper Avenue residents who say the bus will worsen existing congestion and pollution. He submitted the petition to Community Board 5, which, according to the board’s district manager, Gary Giordano, supports the route change.
Oh so Community Board 5 would rather help out a developer than the people who live in the community they represent? Well that comes as no shock, now, does it?
56 comments:
I understanding being upset about irresponsible developers that make buildings too large for the community, but I don't see why someone would be upset with wanting to see Atlas Park succeed.
Atlas Park used to be Atlas Terminals a hub for trucking and shipping. Would the residents rather see large, slow moving trucks clogging their streets?
Since Atlas Park opened you see many more residents walking the streets with a place to go. Its nice to have a movie theater, restaurants and shopping (although some shops are ridiculously priced) right in your neighborhood. Atlas Park is also designed nicely and has made many efforts to work with the community in planning the traffic in the area. The also have nice events such as the greenmarket, outdoor concerts, activities and shows for children. A nice water fountain exists in the middle where kids can play and cool off in the summer time instead of opening fire hydrants and slowing traffic in the streets.
Perhaps the residents walking to Atlas Park are doing so instead of having their cars on the road to drive out of Glendale and Middle Village to go elsewhere to shop or see a movie.
Lets not forget all the jobs Atlas Park has brought to the area.
Are residents worried that rerouting the q54 will bring in "undesirables" from neighboring communities? No one wants that, but we live in a free society and we can't put up walls to keep everyone else out. Its the police and the security of the Atlas Park job to make sure this doesn't become a problem.
There is a trade off with everything and the advantages of having a nicely developed and thriving shopping center outweigh not having it in my opinion.
If you bother to read the article you will see the reasons people gave for not wanting the bus route changed. Plus, it adds extra time to your commute if you aren't going to the mall, and most people taking the bus surely won't be going there.
This has more to do with the fact that Atlas Park wants to attract shoppers who aren't from the community it is in rather than the people who live right next door. All their advertising says "FOREST HILLS, FOREST HILLS, FOREST HILLS!!!" They don't give a flying turd about Glendale.
They don't care about Middle Village, either. They stopped advertising in my civic association's magazine at the behest of a crooked councilman and the Humdinger himself said he wasn't interested in helping save St. Saviour's. One of their head honchos sits on the community board and I predict she will vote to allow the developer to tear the church down. Atlas Park: always looking out for the community.
So what are you implying? The JPCA should stop supporting Atlas Park because they aren't giving them money? That would make them as bad as Gallagher. I don't think that is the case.
Also, why should Hemmidinger agree with the JPCA on all issues? St. Saviors should be saved, but that make him wrong for not wanting to put forth effort or get involved in the debate? I don't know if someone should be discredited because they don't agree with an organization on one issue.
Ultimately Atlas Park cares about making money off of their investment, but I believe they have been sensitive on a whole in addressing the needs of the communities of Middle Village and Glendale, but they can't please everyone. The could have put a big box store like home depot or make an ugly shopping center, but they didn't.
Let's not forget that Atlas Park was also a "brownfield" project and with this project they got rid of much of the contaminated soil that was in the area.
Atlas Park is also advertising to Forest Hills because that is where many people that shop in their stores live. Would you rather have a bunch of dollar stores, banks and nail salons in Atlas Park like their are on Metropolitan Ave? I don't think thats what we need.
Ultimately the stores in AP are going to fail or succeed by the patronage they have. If you don't support the stores then don't buy their overpriced items and Atlas Park will have a better of understand of the demographic they serve.
As much as we know what the over-development movement in Middle Village/Glendale is against we need to know what they stand for. Is all development bad? Because I am starting to think that when all development projects are criticized .
"The JPCA should stop supporting Atlas Park because they aren't giving them money?"
The JPCA should stop supporting Atlas Park because they are doing Gallagher's bidding and Pinky has declared war on them. It's more than 1650 families. You'd think Hemmerdinger would be smart enough to support their efforts.
The complainers on this site never leave me surprised. Why should a bus drive through a cemetary when it can pass a beautiful new shopping/dining complex that enhances the entire community? To me it typifies selfishness to complain about a bus now stopping near your house, when you live in New York City where mass transit is a key factor to our urban success, when the bus re-route will help local business, help a retail complex that benefits the entire community, and helps people who cannot drive get to the Atlas shops. Genius . . .
Didn't the Berry publish 3 or 4 positive articles about the mall without compensation? Wow, if this is how community groups get thanked for helping the place out, it will close in no time. Atlas has managed to piss off Glendale, Middle Village, and Maspeth and is running in the red. The precious Forest Hills yuppies sure as hell aren't taking a bus to that mall, so I don't know why this route change is even being considered. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Ever go to this place when it's 10 degrees outside? It's deserted. An outdoor mall open year round is just poor planning.
Yeah like people will stand outside and wait for the bus when it's that cold. People don't even drive there in the winter!
I was there a week before Christmas and the place was completely dead.
Why change the bus route? Isn't the Q 54 bus stop at the end of the cemetery (80th rd & met. ave) close enough? Q 29 and the buses on Woodhaven blvd. also stop close by.
IMO, Atlas Park is no big deal except for the borders bookstore.
It's not about Atlas Park Succeeding. It's about Noise, Pollution and safety among other concerns.Mr. Hemmedinger states in the article that “I don’t know how many Q54s there are per day,” well I do in a 12 hour period there are 80. There exists a a way for the "Potential Shoppers" to get to the mall without rerouting a bus. "Shoppers" stay on the Q54 and get a free transfer to the Q29 which leaves them off directly across the street from the main entrance to the mall. At a time when the MTA Is talking about raising fares (Rerouting the Q54 will cost $225,000.00 per year) it seems a bit ridiculous to even consider the change.
If Atlas Park fails, that would be a sad commentary on this section of Queens. It would mean that the residents of this area do not want upscale, sophisticated options, but prefer low-grade simple crap.
I was there a few days before Christmas, and it was hoppin'.
It seems to me that 44 signatures is a drop in the bucket for a petition for something like that. Nothing against the man that started the petition, and I can understand why a resident of the block would not want a bus stop in front of their house, but how many people actually take the bus from one of the stops in that near-desolate stretch between 80th and Cooper? It seems to make sense to redirect the route.
Pinky is trying to earn his drinking money by having his taxpaid staff write this obvious promotional material for Atlas Park.
In addition to what I believe strongly is the $ payoff, AP pulled its advertising from the Berry (perfectly legal scumbaggery) and will do its final lapdance for Pinky when its puppet votes against St. Saviour's.
Why not demonstrate some independence from the Pink Pervert and put the advertising money back, fund the conversion of St. Saviour's into a park for the Maspeth Residents, and promote and vote for the saving of St. Saviour's.
They want to be an esteemed member of the community, don't they?
I live near the Q40. I would pay money to the MTA to get a nice bus route with a frequent schedule like the Q54 going up my street. Sometimes you people complain about dumb things.
It should be noted that the Q29 bus already serves this mall. The current Q54 line is like a straight arrow. Why ruin it with a detour to the mall?
"If Atlas Park fails, that would be a sad commentary on this section of Queens. It would mean that the residents of this area do not want upscale, sophisticated options, but prefer low-grade simple crap."
If Atlas Park fails, it will be because they didn't do their homework right and put an upscale shopping mall in the middle of a blue-collar community and expected blue collar people to shell out big bucks for the same stuff they can get in Target for 1/2 the price.
If Atlas Park fails, it will be because Damon's lips were firmly attached to Pinky's ass when the indictment came down.
As far as the bus is concerned, they should advertise in Manhattan, and offer a free shuttle bus from 71st-Continental to the mall. That'll get their Forest Hills crowd and their Manhattan crowd. But instead they reroute a Williamsburg-Jamaica bus to stop in front of the place and piss off their neighbors. Genius!
One side of the street is a cemetery, so if the guy got 44 signatures, that is quite substantial.
I love the mall. I shop there frequently. It is upscale and beautiful. I am thrilled that it is in our community.
I wish them luck and thank them for building it. I know they will be sucessful.
PS. I love that it is an outside mall. (You can get great buys there as well. I am sick of Metro with their 99 cent stores and litter!)
Its just common sense to eliminate the Q54 from the stretch of Metropolitan Ave through St. John's Cemetery and reroute it along Cooper Ave where more people will actually get on and off the bus.
Why do residents that support Atlas Park and the bus route change have to be aligned with Pinky? I can't wait for self serving Gallagher to finally be out of office. I am also a member of the JPCA.
Incidentally I could care less if the Q54 goes pass Atlas Park - I wouldn't ride that line since I live within walking distance of Atlas Park, but wouldn't this change also help a large # of JPCA members that live in the western part of Middle Village and in Maspeth by making it more convenient for them to get to the shopping center?
"Rerouting the Q54 will cost $225,000.00 per year" - wouldn't this be offset by some of the sales tax revenues that Atlas Park will generate from the increase sales due to the route change?
I don't see this as solely as CB5 helping out a developer. I see pluses for the residents that they represent also.
I don't see how the route change helps people in Maspeth. Middle Village people drive...
"Why do residents that support Atlas Park and the bus route change have to be aligned with Pinky?"
Who said that? The management of Atlas Park is definitely aligned with Pinky.
How does the route change help people in Maspeth and Middle Village when the bus a) doesn't go through Maspeth and b) there is already a Middle Village bus that goes there?
If they want to help Maspeth people get to the mall, they'll extend the Q45 like they've been saying.
North of Metropolitan Avenue once the bus passes Fresh Pond Road headed west is Maspeth. Its the "West Maspeth" that everyone is spending so much time concerned with by saving St. Saviors which is a little further north of Metropolitan Ave.
Metropolitan Avenue divides Ridgewood and Maspeth past Fresh Pond. I don't know the exact boundaries, but the Q54 serves some of the residents of Maspeth for sure.
Also what if as a Maspeth resident you took the q58 south on Fresh Pond to Metropolitan Ave and transfered to the Q54? Wouldn't it be better to be dropped off in front of Atlas Park if that is your destination instead of walking from Metro or having to transfer again to the Q29?
People from west Maspeth are either driving or, more likely, not visiting the mall at all. This is not the targeted demographic.
What is the targeted demographic? The people who will flood into Jamaica after it's upzoned?
"Anonymous said...
"Why do residents that support Atlas Park and the bus route change have to be aligned with Pinky?"
Who said that? The management of Atlas Park is definitely aligned with Pinky."
"Taxpayer said...
Pinky is trying to earn his drinking money by having his taxpaid staff write this obvious promotional material for Atlas Park."
Taxpayer said that anyone promoting Atlas Park is on Pinky's taxpaid staff.
Maybe they think people will get off the M train and take the bus? Like anyone takes the M train?
Neither the Q54 nor the Q58 run anywhere near the people who live by St. Saviour's. The Q59 is a few blocks away and doesn't connect to the Q54 except in Brooklyn.
"Also what if as a Maspeth resident you took the q58 south on Fresh Pond to Metropolitan Ave and transfered to the Q54?"
People are gonna go west to turn around and go east? Don't think so.
Maybe all these people are driving because mass transit is inconvenient for them. This is a small step to make it a little more convenient by eliminating two little used bus stops in a long stretch between two cemeteries to a road that stops in front of a shopping mall.
Perhaps if more common sense was put into mass transit as a whole more people would use it and drive less. So no lets not make any changes to any bus routes - heaven forbid people would actually start using it or use it more!
The 44 people that already have trucks going by their houses shouldn't be inconvenienced by adding buses into the mix because obviously this change is ONLY helping the developer.
Crapper: My point wasn't that people lived next to St. Saviors were using the Q58. St. Saviors was just used as a frame of reference for the general area of "west maspeth". The people that live close to Fresh Pond Road in Maspeth are going to use the Q58 though.
"Also what if as a Maspeth resident you took the q58 south on Fresh Pond to Metropolitan Ave and transfered to the Q54?"
People are gonna go west to turn around and go east? Don't think so.
C'mon.. look at a map first then speak. I also said SOUTH than implied EAST on Metropolitan Ave. when they transfered to Q54.
"Maybe all these people are driving because mass transit is inconvenient for them. This is a small step to make it a little more convenient by eliminating two little used bus stops in a long stretch between two cemeteries to a road that stops in front of a shopping mall."
All these people are driving because they have cars and don't need to pay $4 to ride the bus when they can pay $3 to park in the lot and have the convenience of being able to go home when they want to with their bags in the trunk instead of having to lug them on the bus.
Someone said earlier:
"If Atlas Park fails, it will be because they didn't do their homework right and put an upscale shopping mall in the middle of a blue-collar community and expected blue collar people to shell out big bucks for the same stuff they can get in Target for 1/2 the price."
This type of view from some of the people in this area disappoints me. This implies that blue-collar people are unsophisticated low-level types that only shop at discount stores. I guess blue-collar types don't care for any higher quality than Target. I guess blue-collar types don't like more refined restaurants and only eat at Red Lobster. How sad.
Some of the complainers on this blog seem to be rooting for Atlas Park to fail. They should be ashamed. I have lived in this area my entire life, I am glad that we have this top-notch complex and I hope it succeeds so well that they expand it. Genius.
Why should the Atlas Park owners have to align themselves with any group politically? They are running a retail and entertainment business complex, why must they support any position on St. Saviour's? Some people on this blog say the oddest, most illogical things . . .
They shouldn't have to align themselves with St. Saviour's. They should want to preserve neighborhood history. That is what they did by incorporating their rail terminal buildings into the new mall.
The JPCA helped Atlas out when they needed it. When they asked for help in return, they were given a kick in the ass. They have every reason not to support Atlas any longer.
"This implies that blue-collar people are unsophisticated low-level types
that only shop at discount stores."
This only implies that blue collar people are smart enough to not throw their money away on the same crap that is still made in taiwan with a different label sewn into it. It also shows that they spend within their means, and that their means cannot afford most of the shops at Atlas Park.
Ha ha ha! Blaming the customer for "not getting" the business concept is really the dumbest thing I have ever read here.
"Why should the Atlas Park owners have to align themselves with any group politically?"
St. Saviour's is not a political issue. Neither is returning a favor.
From what I understand, Atlas management conducted comprehensive studies on the household income levels in the central Queens area and found that, based on income, these stores are well affordable. Most of the stores I see there are an upgrade to the low value alternatives in the immediate area, but are not extravagently expensive. Jos. A Bank is certainly not Barneys or Saks. The other clothing stores are not Bergdorf's. But they are a big step-up from what we had previously, and I know plenty of blue-collar workers that appreciate the option to shop there. My point is that you shouldn't say that blue-collar people won't like it or can't afford it when in reality the issue is that some local residents just love to complain and do not have the same tastes as others that do enjoy shopping and eating at Atlas.
So the JPCA should only support local businesses that agree with their political agenda? As a community organization, the JPCA should support businesses that benefit the community and not condition support on those businesses taking an active role in the JPCA political causes. Beside, not everyone in the community agrees with the JPCA and some find them to be quite heavy handed and partial in their civic affairs.
Anonymous said...
Someone said earlier:
"If Atlas Park fails, it will be because they didn't do their homework right and put an upscale shopping mall in the middle of a blue-collar community and expected blue collar people to shell out big bucks for the same stuff they can get in Target for 1/2 the price."This type of view from some of the people in this area disappoints me. This implies that blue-collar people are unsophisticated low-level types that only shop at discount stores. I guess blue-collar types don't care for any higher quality than Target. I guess blue-collar types don't like more refined restaurants and only eat at Red Lobster. How sad.Some of the complainers on this blog seem to be rooting for Atlas Park to fail. They should be ashamed. I have lived in this area my entire life, I am glad that we have this top-notch complex and I hope it succeeds so well that they expand it. Genius. "
It has nothing to do with what us blue collar types like or don't like. Some of us have reasons for shopping in dicount stores. Like me for example, I am on a fixed income because I haven't worked in a year because the union has lost jobs left and right to non-union labor.
I would like nothing more to by my wife that $80.00 blouse from J. Jill at Atlas Park, but she knows we cannot afford it and is happy with buying stuff from Target - so don't knock Target, and the other discount places, .... for now it's all some of us can afford.
Mike, Forest Hills
I don't know who JPCA and Pinky are, and judging from the comments, I don't think I really care. What I do know is that re-routing a bus a couple of blocks so that it stops at a major shopping center is such an amazingly obvious thing to do, I'm surprised we have to wait until July.
But I guess people in Queens will complain about anything.
I live in Woodside and shop at Atlas Park often. The stores are great, the selection so much different and better than Queens Mall, and to get the really good deals you just have to time it when the merchants have their big sales. The sales people are amazingly nice, courteous and do NOT have that "whatever" mall attitude. Having a bus route detoured to bring people to this upscale mall is logical planning and probably was in the works long before the news hit the airwaves.
I am not knocking Target, discount stores or blue-collar workers. I think Target is great, but I am saying that Queens should have all types of options and that we should not discourage more upscale development. Before the Atlas Park, all we had in this vicinity were lower-scale stores. Many people who live nearby are glad to have the different selection of places at Atlas and we should encourage more of this type of development. And my point was that people shouldn't categorize all blue-collar workers as "Target shoppers" looking for 1/2 price discounts.
I live in Forest Hills and do not own a car at this time. I will take a trip to Atlas Park to check out how good the public transportation is. I am looking forward to not having to travel to Manhattan to see a movie in a good movie theater. The Midway really sucks.
"So the JPCA should only support local businesses that agree with their political agenda?"
No, they should support their advertisers. It's what keeps the magazine going.
"As a community organization, the JPCA should support businesses that benefit the community and not condition support on those businesses taking an active role in the JPCA political causes."
St. Saviour's is not a political issue. Neither is promising to take out an ad, then after Pinky sits you down, saying you never bought an ad, and only paying for it when proof is submitted that you did indeed buy an ad.
"Beside, not everyone in the community agrees with the JPCA and some find them to be quite heavy handed and partial in their civic affairs."
Without the JPCA, there would be a Home Depot at the gas tanks site right now instead of a new park, Juniper Park would still be a weed-infested dump and an intermodal station would have been built in Maspeth making our streets more congested and polluted. Being heavy handed is sometimes necessary in order to protect your neighborhood. A better question is why would the Atlas Mall drop a paid ad after the civic allowed them to have free ads in multiple issues?
Atlas Park Mall: all hype. Their escalator has been broken for months. I guess they must really be struggling.
If the Mall fails, it's because the coveted F.H. yuppies stayed away. in other words, a failed marketing plan.
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